The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club

[martinb]

post for bob murphy,hi bob after reading your post  regarding an issue from another member,i am hoping you can help.Like him i have the same symptoms regarding the noise when taking up the drive on acceleration or going uphill if i give to much throttle.

I bought my prado from auction 16 years ago,an when i got it home found it was stuck/sticking in low ratio.my local garage found the transfer box contaminated with water and gunge.He fixed the problem,as i thought but about a year later started getting the same clunk,clunk clunk noise as the previous member if i gave to much acceleratin.
I decided to just run it and when it broke i would replace the box. 15 years later its still going,but the problem is now getting worse over the last year or so.

I have just taken it to a local transmission repairer and showed them the problem { i only had to drive 10 feet to let him hear the noise.} he said straight away yep its the transfer chain,although he addmited he had never done a landcruiser before as they never go wrong. But because of its age 1996/97 on a p plate he did not think i would get the spairs!

So i started checking arround and found your post,and when i saw the pictures you put on of the chain i was also dubious that the chain would stretch and slip' if it was the chain i may attempt the repair myself or get them to do it,[ they qouted about £550] if i could get the spares from toyota .

However with my prados previous problems when i bought it i am worried the cause may be a lot more expensive than a new chain'

Any futher ideas would be very apreciated especialy on obtaining parts for a 96/97 model

cheers martin

[Google]

[diggerdave]

For spares you will get the best price using Amayama trading

Things like the chain are likely to be half the price you will be quoted at a dealers  

It's a good jib you've got someone willing to take on the job. When I made some enquiries locally a couple of years ago, no one would touch a Toyota box

Good luck
_________________
1997 KZJ90 3.0d, 2" suspension lift, 235/85/16 Cooper STT Pros. 217k hard miles

[BobMurphy]

Hi Martin,

I have a member's Transfer Box apart on my bench at the moment - he says that the 'clunk' is so bad and so frequent that he can't drive the car!

I am struggling to find anything wrong inside the box (I rebuilt it less than a year ago). There is no sign of damage anywhere and the wear on the sprocket teeth is minimal and exactly the same as the sprockets in my spare Transfer Box (also in bits currently).

Is your car an Auto or a Manual ??

The truck the box on my bench is from is an Auto and its been suffering 'clunk' noises for some time. I'm wondering if the problem is actually in the Auto-Box and that will be my next task if my current fix doesn't show an improvement.

The Hi-Vo Chains changed around 2003 and the later ones have a different Part Number to the earlier ones.

Up to mid-2003 (?)  =  36293 (36293-35031)

After mid-2003 (?)  =  36293 (36293-35040)

I have just ordered one of the earlier chains from Amayama for my spare box - it cost £301.45  - (about half the Toyota (UK) price).

https://www.amayama.com/en

To this you have to add postage from Japan (high) and UK Import Duty and VAT - though they don't always apply that for personal purchases. Delivery can take up to four weeks.

I am putting my spare (earlier) chain in the Transfer box and carefully re-building it again. I am somewhat confused by this problem as the cause of the apparent skipping is proving difficult to track down - and its driving me mad. I have re-built seven Transfer Boxes and this is the only one with a persistent problem, which makes me think the problem might be elsewhere.

Don't worry about getting parts, they are available.









If you are going to strip and re-build your Transfer Box I would recommend replacing all the bearings and oil Seals as a matter of course. I usually work on a budget of £800 or so for a 'normal' rebuild - more if there is serious wear/damage.

Be aware that the nuts on the Companion Flanges can be extremely tight (although only torqued-up to 87 Lbs/Ft). I have broken a 3/4" Power Bar trying to undo them in the past (after 'unstaking' the nuts, of course) and have made an enormous locking bar to hold the flanges - which are different sizes, of course.








Get in touch if I can help in any way  .

Bob.

[martinb]

thanks for that diggerdave will check out that site.

hi bob thanks for the info,my prado is an auto,i have been driving with this problem for fifteen years,although i dont go offroad or tow,and i have to take up the drive on the gentle side.It just goes to show how good the lancruiser build quality is.but it is getting worse.

The clunk sound is defenitley from arround the transfer box area and kind of resinates along the rear prop.Having seen the very good pictures you posted,i just cant see how that chain would stretch,especialy as there is no tensioner involved which could prove to be a problem.That makes me think about what you said about the needle roller bearings in the differential unit,and as i said peviously when i first bought the vehicle i had water cotamination in the box.

Yes i was intending to replace all seals,gaskets,flange nuts ect... but i was shocked to see the prices of the chain,and bearings.even if the bearings are ok there bound to fall apart if i have to pull it from the shaft by the outer track lol.

Many moons ago i used to work on defender 90s and 110s and did a few transfer boxes,and from what i can remember of them the landcruiser box seems fairly straight forward thanks to people like yourself who take time to post and help other people.but not being kitted out for for jobs like this ie no ramp or pit,no pullers,no torque wrench,i could hire the tools,but being nearly 60 years old with a neck problem i would miss the ramp.

Could you tell me if there is enough clearance to remover the transfer box from the vehicle and leave the gearbox in situ,or would the whole transmission need to be droped out?

My prado has done about 260,000 kl it dosent burn a single drop of oil,and it has no rust whatsoever,apart from seviceing,batteries ,a timing belt change and a water pump,she has never let me down for 16 years,so i would be gutted to scrap her,but i can see this project running into big money probably more than the value of the vehicle.

I have some hard thinking to do,i hope you sort your problem out,but if your fears of it being in the other box come true it sound as if you will have the same dilemma as me.

Good luck,cheers martin

[BobMurphy]

Martin,

Nearly 60 years old . . . you're just a youngster (I'll be 70 in May  ).  

It is possible to drop the Transfer Box without removing the whole transmission - but you will have to lower the back of the gearbox (the engine mountings will cope). Drain the Transfer Box And Gearbox unless you want an oil bath (DAMHIK   ). Remove the cross-member from behind the gearbox and support it on a bottle jack - then carefully lower the jack to get clearance. There are a couple of 12mm-headed bolts on the off-side that are difficult to reach - you will need a collection of socket extension shafts (and preferably a six-point socket).





Be Warned . . The Transfer Box weighs 50 kilos and its a real lump when it lands on you. I put a couple of sacks over my knees and use them to wiggle the box out and lower it. I have a Transmission Jack - but the TB is an awkward shape and doesn't sit on it properly. I use wood blocks to prop it up while undoing the (8) mounting bolts.






As you have an Auto, your Selector Shafts will be on the outside at the front and the Transfer Lever Turret will be mounted on the Gearbox Extension housing. I have been amazed at the amount of rust that collects in there - Manual Transmissions are nice and clean as the Lever mounts directly to the Transfer Box.









The two Planet Carriers in the TB I'm working on are not too bad. Also, I asked the owner to do some tests and his car 'clunks' with the Centre Diff open as well as locked and in High Ratio and Low Ratio.

The High/Low Planet Carrier doesn't do anything except idle when in 'High' - so it isn't that.

The Centre Diff will drive directly to the rear axle when locked and the front will lock-up because the Planet Gears can't deliver two ratios at once. The front drive could skip if they had very worn needle rollers but these are fairly normal with no sign of new wear or swarf. I once re-built a box that was completely worn out inside with the Planet Gears rattling about on what was left of the bearings - but the owner didn't want to spend money on it so I didn't replace the Centre Diff Planet Carrier. His box didn't skip and I didn't hear bad things about it (he's a pal of a neighbour, so I would get feed-back).

I'm determined to get to the bottom of the problem, but at the moment if I had hair I'd be pulling it out.

I'm also having to strip the 2.2litre D-4D motor in my daughter's RAV4 as she's blown the head gasket (or head  ). I keep muttering "I hate Cars" (I have four 'Classic' motorcycles to restore - they are much better  ).


If you can live without your car for a month - remove the (drained) Transfer box and send it to me. I'll see what I can find (parts from Japan can take four weeks to arrive!).

Cheers.

Bob.

[BobMurphy]

Martin,

Just a thought - have a look at this thread, it shows me removing a Transfer Box from an 'Auto' Colorado  .

http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15366&highlight=pentland+cruiserge Name

Bob.

[mike adams]

Hi Martin
If you need a chain I have one I kept from my transfer box when scrapped it. I didn' have the space to keep the whole box but for some reason I kept the chain. Only on a swb for relatively low miles and was not contaminated. You are welcome to it if you pay the postage.
Regards
Mike Adams

[martinb]

Thanks for the offer Mike,thats very kind of you.

I am not sure what i am going to do yet,i may get my local garage to do it,as i dont think i have the resources to take it on,and to be honest i am not even sure the chain is at fault.

If i do need it in the future,and you still have it i would give you something for it,i couldnt except it for nothing,not the price they are.

cheers.

[martinb]

Hi bob,i sent you a reply,but for some reason i sent it pm,doh!!!  i am not very good at posting on these forums lol,if you dont get it,it basically said thanks for a fantastic write up on TB removal.

will be in touch

[BobMurphy]

I received the PM, thanks Martin (and I've replied).

If, when you get to remove the TB, you need a hand with it - just call  .

All the best.

Bob.

[martinb]

Hi Bob

finally had time and,and the inclanation to get under the landcruiser.{sun was shining}and have a look.my local transmission garage wanted £250 just to pull the TB out.Just as you said,8 propshaft bolts,two crossmembers, 8 bolts. 7 transfer to gearbox bolts,and some bits to remove inside the cab, linkages ect. and a few electrical connections.£250!!!

Looking at it i am wondering if this could be done in situ. if i can raise the vehicle by about 15 inches to work underneath,remove a prop and crack the nut using the transmision to lock the drive,and then repeat the process for the other prop flange nut.

remove props and flanges,remove crossmember,remove bolts and remove rear cover to reveal chain assembly ect,,. there looks to be enough room to use a puller to remove bearings and chain assembly with sprockets. if i need to delve deeper i am hoping that everything else would be accessable the same way.

having said that a bit more work and the box would be out,anyway just a thought,i think i will defenitley be doing it myself.

If i get accsess to the chain can you tell me what  would be the movement in millimeters of a good chain would be,so i could determine if i need to look further,apart from the obvious,collapsed bearings ect..

On the rebuild is there any shimming to be done for end float on the shafts or does it just go back as it came apart.
cheers mate.

[BobMurphy]

Martin,

Take the TB out!

The rear of the selector shafts have a pair of sprung detente balls and an interlock plunger in between the shafts. To re-fit, you will have to pull the Diff Lock shaft forward further than normal in order to get the interlock plunger in. Then everything has to be moved back into place before fitting the detente balls, springs & caps. I wouldn't want to do that with the box installed as it would be a real pain.

Also, the stake nuts on the companion flanges can be VERY tight. I have snapped a 3/4"-drive Power Bar trying to undo one (after unstaking the nut). I wouldn't put that strain on the TB internals so I lock the flanges with a special steel bar.

The chain is an unknown quantity. I have had boxes sent to me because they were 'skipping' and it was assumed it was caused by a worn chain. Despite not having any evidence of the chain jumping the sprockets (worn sprocket teeth, worn teeth on the chain, metal swarf in the box & on the magnetic trap) I replaced bearings, chain, oil seals and so on and it all seemed to work - except for one. That one is on the bench at the moment for the third time, I can't find anything wrong so have put my good used chain it and its almost back together.

I have a sneaky suspicion that all the Transfer Boxes that have come to me because they were 'skipping' were on the back of Auto Boxes  . I must dig back through my records. The others have been from manual gearboxes and usually have destroyed Centre Diffs   (I guess Auto Boxes are kinder when off-roading).

I think my next task will be to strip and examine a 343F Auto Box  . I hope the Gremlins don't escape.

I haven't shimmed a Transfer Box, just put everything back as it came out. There is only one place where the factory shim it - there are usually two between the Rear Companion Flange and the Speedometer Worm Drive. There is quite a lot of movement in the main assembly with movement being limited by the lock rings in the bearings at each end.

I found that "the thought was worse than the deed" and once I started it wasn't too difficult to remove the Transfer box. Its still a bloomin' heavy lump though.

By the way - whereabouts are you ??

Bob.

[martinb]

Hi Bob

sorry for the late reply,hard drive in pc crashed,more expence!!

taken on board what you said,will take box out,when i decide to take the plunge.

I live in essex.

[BobMurphy]