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Advice/help - Maybe rust issue after shock came off chassis?


 
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godzilla
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Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 45
Location: caerphilly

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 22:03    Post subject: Advice/help - Maybe rust issue after shock came off chassis? Reply with quote

HI All,

MOT passed all well back in November 2020.

But December time , heard a knocking noise, rear passenger back wheel.  Turned out to be the shock came loose and off the chassis.  Almost like it had broken the metal or sheared off.  I could only think, it was the pot hole killed it and the sudden hit was too much!

Anyway - local garage got a new shock put in and welded a piece and fitted it all fine.

But, this weekend the shock came off again as the metal did not hold (totally baffled).

Went to garage and they put another metal plate (they might off put a thin piece originally) in and fixed the shock back in place.  But said, the chassis is rusting and looks like there could be more weak points, the top of jeep has no issues.  So, give me a heads up!

Background - 2005, LC4, Auto Disel - Bought Nov 2016 (139K approx)., had over 4 years, done about 35K, roughly around 172kish...Been brilliant, but wife said I need to downgrade as the kid will be learning to drive and need a smaller manual car (but, I can get another jeep one in the future).

So, have to make a decision WHAT to do!


1. Sell it - take a hit and sell cheap.
2. professonal clean, rust check and see where the rust is and weld any weak points and then treat and wax
3. Part ex for a smaller car

A little help on this one as the bottom has thrown me a bit, I knew there was rust underneath, but is was ok MOT wise.   So, one day I knew something would pop up underneath.

If I do sell, what's the best way to do this honestly?!?

Gutted and happy new year all!
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sheepish
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Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Posts: 290
Location: Bridgend, Wales

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 21:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well when I met you in Bridgend after you bought it the chassis was in much better condition than mine. And I still have mine, and I bet I get mine muddier.

However, mine has had 2 cross members, both coil spring mounts, and the rear axle case replaced. Plus a few patches on the sills. Tank straps. Probably something else I can't remember. I don't think the shock mount has rotted but I've broken a couple of shocks.

They do rot. And I think the only way round it is to pay to have the underseal redone every couple of years. Probably depends how bad it is now as to whether that is worth it.

I've probably spent £3-400 / year in the last few years on welding and fabrication, but as you can see it's a good list. That's way less than depreciation on something newer, and downsizing isn't an option for me. Finding a good fabrication / welding place is very useful.

I think you have to accept that nearly every LC 120 of that age is going to be on a similar path. It will start to cost some money. You have to decide what that money will do elsewhere.
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wooly0000
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Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 456
Location: wigan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 21:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

same here sheepish, i luckily have a really good welder, the underseal issue is a real battle, i've just noticed it needs doing again this summer
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Ibex
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Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 33
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:10    Post subject: Rust protection Reply with quote

My motor is a 2006 LC4 and looks very nice, but I'm sure the previous owner used it on the beach for a while as the corrosion was a real shock when I finally got down to it. I have since found out that a lot of the flaking is original paint coming off, taking a layer of steel with it of course!  I spent a weekend with wire brushes on angle grinders etc and managed to get a lot of the bad flakey stuff away that I could get to without removing lots of car that is always in the way. Then I began to think about underseal.

IMHO if your car is not brand new, then it is a mistake to apply anything that will dry in place. Waxoil is a perfect case in point. I owned my last Landrover Defender for 14 years (from 2 years old) and must have put 7 gallons of waxoil into it over that time. I was persuaded to sell it when I noticed layers of waxoil pealing off the rear cross member revealing a rotted cross member beneath! What is needed - in my opinion, is something like my old Dad used to use which was old sump oil - which soaked into rusty parts although was very messy and needed repeating every year at least. Years later I discovered that the acids in old sump oil is probably not a good idea, and it is not environmentally friendly either. It also perishes any rubber parts, so maybe there's a new twist to this old practise?

Buying the Toyota got me researching the question and I came up with using Lanolin from Sheep's wool instead of engine oil. Apparently some shepherds noticed that corrugated iron in sheep sheds never used to rust like every other piece of the same on the farm - and put it down to the lanolin off the sheep. Then I found a company in Plymouth who have been producing it commercially for years for the fishing industry! They started applying it to trawlers and then use spread to the trailers used for launching small boats into the sea. A liberal coating of "Lanoguard" is said to protect them! Over the last few years, the company has started expanding into the automotive market, and this is where I found them. Look up Lanoguard on line.

I have since used 2 lots of Lanoguard on my Toyota and must say it currently looks quite good. After one application of just the oil I was dismissive because it looked as though I had done nothing. I had not used the grease they sell, just the oil, which I think was my mistake. I now heat up the tub of grease in hot water before brushing it liberally onto chassis rails and all other bits you can reach, having seriously wire-brushed beforehand and removed as much rust as possible. Lanolin adheres well to steel, but also appears very good at seperating rusty metal in flakes, leaving untreated patches of chassis! After my first application I came back and thought it was a disaster and then realised that I could not possibly have neglected those new untreated patches! After the grease I have gone around with a heat gun and ensured every application is remelted in situ. Then I go around and overspray with the 5 litres of (heated) lanolin oil in my paraffin gun on my compressor. The result is very satisfying, but I would add a disclaimer that the car has only done maybe 2500 miles over the last year, due to Covid restrictions, so not really a fair test.

I am happy to reapply further lots of the oil over coming years and monitor performance. I think this is a tough test and only time will tell, but so far, so good.
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godzilla
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Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 45
Location: caerphilly

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 15:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

sheepish wrote:
Well when I met you in Bridgend after you bought it the chassis was in much better condition than mine. And I still have mine, and I bet I get mine muddier.

However, mine has had 2 cross members, both coil spring mounts, and the rear axle case replaced. Plus a few patches on the sills. Tank straps. Probably something else I can't remember. I don't think the shock mount has rotted but I've broken a couple of shocks.

They do rot. And I think the only way round it is to pay to have the underseal redone every couple of years. Probably depends how bad it is now as to whether that is worth it.

I've probably spent £3-400 / year in the last few years on welding and fabrication, but as you can see it's a good list. That's way less than depreciation on something newer, and downsizing isn't an option for me. Finding a good fabrication / welding place is very useful.

I think you have to accept that nearly every LC 120 of that age is going to be on a similar path. It will start to cost some money. You have to decide what that money will do elsewhere.


Still trying to figure out how the shocker could of come and still kind of dont believe it was the rust that would of caused it.

I have taken photos of both sides for inspection here and grateful for any kind of fixes.

I wondering if there is any parts for this section that can be bought and welded on.

I used a local garage fort he quick fix, so will need to look for a better fix as the plate that has been welded on it slight thicker or makes the left back side lift a couple of mms higher than it should or I think it does.

How do i put pictures on here, so I can show what the current state of play is.

Wife still wants to get rid, I am thinking a fix might cure it as it top condition up top, well a couple of updated service bits to do, nothing unusual!
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godzilla
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Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 45
Location: caerphilly

PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:13    Post subject: Re: Rust protection Reply with quote

Ibex wrote:
My motor is a 2006 LC4 and looks very nice, but I'm sure the previous owner used it on the beach for a while as the corrosion was a real shock when I finally got down to it. I have since found out that a lot of the flaking is original paint coming off, taking a layer of steel with it of course!  I spent a weekend with wire brushes on angle grinders etc and managed to get a lot of the bad flakey stuff away that I could get to without removing lots of car that is always in the way. Then I began to think about underseal.

IMHO if your car is not brand new, then it is a mistake to apply anything that will dry in place. Waxoil is a perfect case in point. I owned my last Landrover Defender for 14 years (from 2 years old) and must have put 7 gallons of waxoil into it over that time. I was persuaded to sell it when I noticed layers of waxoil pealing off the rear cross member revealing a rotted cross member beneath! What is needed - in my opinion, is something like my old Dad used to use which was old sump oil - which soaked into rusty parts although was very messy and needed repeating every year at least. Years later I discovered that the acids in old sump oil is probably not a good idea, and it is not environmentally friendly either. It also perishes any rubber parts, so maybe there's a new twist to this old practise?

Buying the Toyota got me researching the question and I came up with using Lanolin from Sheep's wool instead of engine oil. Apparently some shepherds noticed that corrugated iron in sheep sheds never used to rust like every other piece of the same on the farm - and put it down to the lanolin off the sheep. Then I found a company in Plymouth who have been producing it commercially for years for the fishing industry! They started applying it to trawlers and then use spread to the trailers used for launching small boats into the sea. A liberal coating of "Lanoguard" is said to protect them! Over the last few years, the company has started expanding into the automotive market, and this is where I found them. Look up Lanoguard on line.

I have since used 2 lots of Lanoguard on my Toyota and must say it currently looks quite good. After one application of just the oil I was dismissive because it looked as though I had done nothing. I had not used the grease they sell, just the oil, which I think was my mistake. I now heat up the tub of grease in hot water before brushing it liberally onto chassis rails and all other bits you can reach, having seriously wire-brushed beforehand and removed as much rust as possible. Lanolin adheres well to steel, but also appears very good at seperating rusty metal in flakes, leaving untreated patches of chassis! After my first application I came back and thought it was a disaster and then realised that I could not possibly have neglected those new untreated patches! After the grease I have gone around with a heat gun and ensured every application is remelted in situ. Then I go around and overspray with the 5 litres of (heated) lanolin oil in my paraffin gun on my compressor. The result is very satisfying, but I would add a disclaimer that the car has only done maybe 2500 miles over the last year, due to Covid restrictions, so not really a fair test.

I am happy to reapply further lots of the oil over coming years and monitor performance. I think this is a tough test and only time will tell, but so far, so good.



Thanks Ibex,

Oddly enough, I found them yesterday while searches for fixes and I need to now do a plan of action to fix the underneath and see if there is any more welds to be done first!

Had planned to get it jet washed, see what needs done - get it de-rusted and then go from there, oh and see if there is any other major welds to be done also - as that the main issue I think, I might or might not have.
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Ibex
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Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 33
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:28    Post subject: Lanoguard Reply with quote

Mine has not reached the point where any welding is required, which surprises me because it looked very bad when I first saw it. My ambition is never to get there!

I would say that Lanoguard is a more labour intensive treatment ( the way I am doing it)  than the general paint on/spray on competition, but many of those, to my sure knowledge are not worth any effort. Only time will tell but with repeated application it's beginning to look quite good.   bandhead
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godzilla
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Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 45
Location: caerphilly

PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:30    Post subject: Re: Lanoguard Reply with quote

Ibex wrote:
Mine has not reached the point where any welding is required, which surprises me because it looked very bad when I first saw it. My ambition is never to get there!

I would say that Lanoguard is a more labour intensive treatment ( the way I am doing it)  than the general paint on/spray on competition, but many of those, to my sure knowledge are not worth any effort. Only time will tell but with repeated application it's beginning to look quite good.   bandhead


With the shock coming off, I need to do a weld on the side where the shock came off as the temp weld is pisspoor!

But just found a welder local to me who does trucks and 4x4 welds and said he ok to have a good look and price up next week, so thats a start.

He will also check the rest of the jeep and advise from there.  Hopefully, he can point out what treatment I need and how much!
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