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The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club
Landcruiser Club - Dedicated to Toyota Landcruiser, Amazon, Colorado and Prado Owners
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margerybargery
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 39
Location: Surrey
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 Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:34 Post subject: |
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No news on the brake situ due to my tech friend being unavailable (wife's birthday or some similar small matter). I did however buy some used calipers on e bay but was ripped off. There is a guy selling bits using a pic of a 3dr Colorado and saying the take offs are in good nick, unfortunately I got two half calipers that are rotten. A further look at his feedback as a seller shows other have experienced te same. Not sure why e bay allow 100% positive FB for people who rip others off.
Anyway...Bob do you know if it's possible to bypass the LSV and just connect the rear brakes? I'm thinking of buying new calipers all round and having another go. |
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:34 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
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BobMurphy
Lifetime member
Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1739
Location: Kirkliston, Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 13:50 Post subject: |
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| margerybargery wrote: |
| Bob do you know if it's possible to bypass the LSV and just connect the rear brakes? I'm thinking of buying new calipers all round and having another go. |
Ah, Well, I'm in deep, uncharted waters here and reluctant to advise you to do something that may cause your rear brakes to fail.
There are two feed pipes going to the LSV.
1. = from the brake Master Cylinder and is where the fluid pressure comes from.
2. = From the ABS Modulator and is presumably how the ABS system releases the rear brakes when it detects the rear wheel(s) locking - it must dump the brake pressure back to the modulator.
The third pipe is the feed to the flexi-hose and from there, via a splitter, to the two rear calipers.
The dilemma . . .
Is there more going on in the LSV than just providing a convenient junction for the feed and ABS pipes??
I assume there is otherwise the two pipes could be 'T'eed' together at the front of the car rather than waste all that pipework moving the 'T' to the back.
I assume you want to remove the limiting valve but retain the ABS.
At this point I have to say that I don't know enough about it and I'd recommend that you leave it well alone - replacing the LSV if you find that there is, indeed, no fluid reaching the rear calipers.
Hopefully a brake expert will be able to give us chapter and verse.
Sorry!
Bob. |
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HairyWookie
Lifetime member
Joined: 20 Jul 2012
Posts: 405
Location: Heysham, Lancs
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:31 Post subject: |
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Bob & OP,
Maybe a quick trip to the MOT place & a session on the brake rollers would reveal whats going on? Can also tie down LSV or lock up to give the two states of brake force distribution. (Obviously, up towards chassis its open flow full brake force, unrestrictive. Downward, and its flow & brake force limiting).
That may narrow down exactly whats going on.
We had to mess with mine last year after doing the handbrake & rear axle work; bleeding the brakes was awkward with car on 2 post lift & axle dangling. Easier by tying LSV valve in up position, bleeding that first, then bleeding the 3 legs of the T.
I still have a LOT of pedal travel; but I think thats just an LC quirk... Didnt bother MOT fella; all 4 wheels doing what they should.
Only my small contribution; I stay well away from brakes & ABS if I can at all help it.
_________________
Regards, Chris.
1997 KZJ95 3.0TD GX Manual (Jess)
Weekend Warrior with 18 years of mechanical experience; still learning...
Occasional use on SVO... |
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margerybargery
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 39
Location: Surrey
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 18:13 Post subject: |
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Hello all, after a month off the road, here's the latest on the LC brake conundrum. Binding got worse and the rear calipers were changed. That helped but I Still had problem so disconnected the handbrake on the offside. This has worked and now there's no binding.
However, darker forces are at work. The brake pedal is hard to push down and the stopping distance is longer. After a trip into town, checked the discs and the front ones were hot and the back ones cold. Back brakes not working.
Any ideas...? |
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BobMurphy
Lifetime member
Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1739
Location: Kirkliston, Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:15 Post subject: |
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| margerybargery wrote: |
| However, darker forces are at work. The brake pedal is hard to push down and the stopping distance is longer. After a trip into town, checked the discs and the front ones were hot and the back ones cold. Back brakes not working.Any ideas...? |
Disconnect the Load-Sensing Valve (LSV) from the Lateral Control Arm (AKA 'Panhard Rod') and tie the lever up. If the LSV is working that should release fluid pressure to the rear brakes. You will still have ABS so shouldn't endanger yourself or anyone else by locking the rear end.
However, If, as I suspect, the LSV looks like this . .
It will have no effect  .
In which case I would bite the bullet and replace it with a new one.
Bob. |
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margerybargery
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 39
Location: Surrey
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 13:25 Post subject: |
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Hi Bob,
I've tried to insert a pic of the LSV but can't figure out how to, so gave up. Externally it's very corroded but the boot looks like it's done its job as the inside isn't as bad, it actually looks quite clean. The valve moves downwards but only a few mm and pings back upwards if pulled with pliers. It doesn't appear to make contact with the arm in any position, therefore the arm appears to be ineffective. With the arm tied up with a cable tie the back brakes still don't work, they don't work with the arm down either, but ABS seems to still work on the front brakes. In the fully upposition, the arm doesn't seem to compress the value.
How far down should the valve sit as the arm doesn't push it up at all? It's either knackered ot not bled properly? Thanks for all you help so far! |
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BobMurphy
Lifetime member
Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1739
Location: Kirkliston, Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 23:42 Post subject: |
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| margerybargery wrote: |
| How far down should the valve sit as the arm doesn't push it up at all? It's either knackered ot not bled properly? |
I don't have an answer for that I'm afraid. Obviously the further away from the valve the arm sits the more restriction it places on the brake fluid flow. As you don't appear to be getting back brake fluid pressure with the arm in any position I suggest the LSV is knackered and should be replaced.
As for posting pictures . . .
you will need to use a Photo-Hosting website such as 'Photobucket'. Place your pictures there and then copy the 'direct link' option from the hosting site and paste it into your text. It will need to be 'top and tailed' like this:
[img] at the front and [/img] at the back of your pasted link.
Your picture should then appear when you 'preview' your post.
Bob. |
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margerybargery
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 39
Location: Surrey
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 20:47 Post subject: |
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I finally have a diagnois after all this time, afetr nearly three months off the road. Looks like a perfect storm of brake problems:
1) Seized front calipers
2) Seized rear calipers
3) Seized hand brake
4) Knackered load sensor
Rear brake calipers have been replaced from Milners and now working, handbrake freed up and also working. Just waiting for the front calipers......
I can't believe it all went wrong at the same time!
Has annyone else ever experiened this? |
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BobMurphy
Lifetime member
Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1739
Location: Kirkliston, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:29 Post subject: |
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| margerybargery wrote: |
I can't believe it all went wrong at the same time!
Has anyone else ever experienced this? |
Oh Yes 
When I bought my '98 '95' in 2008 the rear calipers and disks were just lumps of corrosion, the LSV wasn't working, the handbrake was a joke.
The front calipers were working but the disks and pads were shot.
If you don't keep on top of the maintenance it sneaks up on you.
I bought the truck from a dealer, magically it came with a 12-month MOT  .
This year I bought a 2001 100-Series 'VX'. It was in lovely condition on top, but underneath it was the same old story . . .
Handbrake not working at all (its an Auto so no-one ever used the handbrake), rear calipers seized, rear disks shot, diesel tank and filler pipes leaking, air filter choked, rear diff locker corroded away.
The front brakes are fine, though I have replaced the bleed nipples as they had almost corroded away.
It all appears to work now and is a very nice car, but I have spent £7,000 on it since buying it  .
It also came with a 12-month MOT  .
Bob. |
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Vagabond
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Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 455
Location: Watford, HERTS
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 17:58 Post subject: |
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I don't want to go off-topic here but I don't know how these MoT garages get away with it?
I know of a car recently bought from a dealer by a friend, that came with a new MoT. It was a absolute scrapper - brakes not working, suspension shot (one corner collapsed), heavy corrosion to sills/chassis.
It only had 2 advisories - front nearside brake binding and handbrake just within limit!!!
_________________
'97 VZJ95 - Colorado 3.4V6 with LPG, 40mm Ironman SL, full SS exhaust, 265/75R16 Hankook Dynapro RF10s on 80 alloys and 195k+ |
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margerybargery
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 39
Location: Surrey
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 21:34 Post subject: |
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Interesting point about the MOT. I originally bought my bus from a main dealer with a 12m MOT for £1700. It needed a new engine as it had a bent con rod, the smoke was horrendous on start up. One of the rear shocks had snapped off at the top bolt and was just clonking around. was bought on trust and was really due to be scrapped.
The fuel tank and pipes were rotten as was the filler neck, so it had starting problems. Brake pipes also needed doing.
Through a contact I as able to get an engine from an unused electrical training rig. Bizarre coincidence there was a manual TD engine lying around complete with all ancillaries incl clutch and it had never seen the light of day or done a mile OTR.
Back from the dead really!
One further question I have...I've never managed to get the bolt out the rear diff housing, it's totally rounded. No idea when the oil was last changed. do they ever go wrong? It was also really corroded all over the housing and has shed half its skin, so theres a constant worry that it will be the next thing to go! |
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BobMurphy
Lifetime member
Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1739
Location: Kirkliston, Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 0:23 Post subject: |
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| margerybargery wrote: |
| One further question I have...I've never managed to get the bolt out the rear diff housing, it's totally rounded. No idea when the oil was last changed. do they ever go wrong? It was also really corroded all over the housing and has shed half its skin, so theres a constant worry that it will be the next thing to go! |
I assume you're talking about the oil level plug.
They are rather low profile and as sockets have a tapered 'lead in' they don't get much to grip on. I use a 24mm six-point socket and give it a good tap with a hammer before putting a power bar on it. I have had to use heat as well in the past.
I have recently made an 'extended' plug by welding a bolt head (with a short length of shank) to the head of an old level plug. That will allow a socket or ring spanner to get a good grip. I haven't had to use it as both 'Cruisers' now have decent plugs.
It would be a good idea to change the rear axle oil. When I drained the axle on my '100' when I first bought it the oil had a silken sheen to it which sort of shimmered in the light . . . It had a lot of very fine metal particles in it . I later removed the rear diff in order to get the remains of the diff locker off it and the diff gears were fine so I think I got away with it. I shall be changing the oil regularly though.
If your level plug is totally knackered I would get a Stilson on it - after you have bought a replacement plug. Failing that, weld a bolt head to it. The handbrake cable gets in the way so you may have to un-couple it from the O/S brake bellcrank.
Putting a thick copper washer under the level plug will let it stand out a bit more and a socket will have a better chance of gripping it.
Bob. |
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margerybargery
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 39
Location: Surrey
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 16:23 Post subject: |
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Yes, was referring to the oil level plug. I'd had a similar idea about welding a bolt onto it, the intense heat going through the bolt can often be enough to help create a bit of movement. Just need a friendly welder to oblige.
The diff lock actuator has completely disintegrated on mine, either through corrosion or it's just sheered off somehow. Is this a potential source of water ingress?
Have been looking for a replacement but they're like hens teeth!
I think the excessive corrosion is from an obvious source - Aberdeen. Bought it from a guy up there who has driven it on the beach as theRe was quite a bit of sand. I lived just down thebroadnfrom you Bob, in Dean Village, so aware of the effects the Scottish climate can have on metal! |
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BobMurphy
Lifetime member
Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1739
Location: Kirkliston, Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 18:38 Post subject: |
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| margerybargery wrote: |
I'd had a similar idea about welding a bolt onto it, the intense heat going through the bolt can often be enough to help create a bit of movement. Just need a friendly welder to oblige.
The diff lock actuator has completely disintegrated on mine, either through corrosion or it's just sheered off somehow. Is this a potential source of water ingress? |
I welded the bolt head to the plug AFTER it had been removed from the axel .
If you still lived in Dean Village I could have helped you .
Its unlikely that water will get into the rear axel through the old diff locker. The 'nose' of the locker is usually the last intact piece as its got a rubber sealing ring and oil against it on the inside (or should have ). I have to bore those bits out with a 19mm tube cutter.
I doubt you'll find a working diff locker secondhand, they dissolve too readily.
Bob. |
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