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Voltages !


 
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RADIOTWO
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Joined: 18 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 20:00    Post subject: Voltages ! Reply with quote

Hi Folks

I know there are a few late 100 owners out there so I have a question?

when you start up the motor, look at the voltmeter, and how long does it take to get to 14Volts.

when you reply can you please let me know the age and if it Diesel ot Petrol.

Thanks in advance

Radiotwo
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 20:00    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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HOG
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Location: SOMERSET UK

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I get same votage straight after starting. This is using gauge in car.
and it a 4.2 wessel auto 2000

Suspect battery cell gone in one or more of your batterys
Try disconecting one battery at a time and check volts off each.
What volts do you get using a metre. put volt metre across bat + - if ok Usually around 13.8 ish. Wiht engin running
Anything above 12v will charge batterys, but not fast enough if your using them.
Had to replace mine at christmas guage showing low charge, duff cells in one batt. draged charge down. It was ok if used every day more than 36hrs no chance.

And I realy didn't care about my up and down button. But thanks any way.

Got more hits on power chipping, Ha Ha Laughing
Ever noticed veiw to replie ratio,  it not good. Maybe people are shy.
Got to do some work, hope above helps if not give me a shout.
mark.
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Nor
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 18:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't actually measured the time or voltage today, but I noticed after moving to relatively cold Norway that the voltage would be quite low until a minute or so after starting.  In the winter I see that the lights suddenly get brighter after driving 1/4 mile or so.
Discovered that it's the intake heater, which is a heating grid on the engine air intake instead of glow plugs.  It stays on and draws lots of amps until the engine has a certain temp.  So the alternator charges, but that heater takes it all for a bit.
When wifey is back with the car, I'll be happy to go out with my voltmeter and stopwatch for a bit, if required.
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RADIOTWO
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 20:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nor wrote:
Haven't actually measured the time or voltage today, but I noticed after moving to relatively cold Norway that the voltage would be quite low until a minute or so after starting.  In the winter I see that the lights suddenly get brighter after driving 1/4 mile or so.
Discovered that it's the intake heater, which is a heating grid on the engine air intake instead of glow plugs.  It stays on and draws lots of amps until the engine has a certain temp.  So the alternator charges, but that heater takes it all for a bit.
When wifey is back with the car, I'll be happy to go out with my voltmeter and stopwatch for a bit, if required.


Thanks Nor

No need to go out, but have you got a Voltmeter in the dash?

The reason for the question, mine has one in the dash, and when I start it up, the volt meter does not start to read for a few mins, I would have thought as soon as the engine starts that the meter should show stright away.

Now I have had in into the dealers and they say that is fine, but have asked the question at a diffrent dealer and they say it is not (who do you beleive ?)

Now as Hog says I seem to be having problems with the batterys, they seem to go down after leaving the car for about 4 weeks without starting, (not enough to stop it starting) but on the boarder line.

So trying to determine if the battery's are causing the voltmeter problem,and need to get the dealer admit the battery's are duff !

Radiotwo
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Nor
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 21:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 WEEKS!
That's a long time.  But yes, I left it for about that time once, nearly 3 years ago, and it was a bit lazy.  Don't think it can take it now, with batteries more than 6 years old.

4 weeks equals 672 hrs.
Your batteries are about 200 Ah.
That means if you drain about 300 milliamps they will be empty before 4 weeks have passed.  
Say you drain half of that, and you will have less than half of your starting capacity, which will be quite noticable.
Don't know how much the LC100 uses when resting, but it uses a bit for the alarm, remote, and related circuitry.  Add to that the self-discharge, and you end up with empty batteries before you know.

My in-dash meter normally (daily use) starts up at around 12 v (assuming that is the thick middle mark) and ends up at around 14 (3/4 mark) after a few minutes, if I don't switch on a lot of big consumers.
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RADIOTWO
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 21:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nor wrote:
4 WEEKS!
That's a long time.  But yes, I left it for about that time once, nearly 3 years ago, and it was a bit lazy.  Don't think it can take it now, with batteries more than 6 years old.

4 weeks equals 672 hrs.
Your batteries are about 200 Ah.
That means if you drain about 300 milliamps they will be empty before 4 weeks have passed.  
Say you drain half of that, and you will have less than half of your starting capacity, which will be quite noticable.
Don't know how much the LC100 uses when resting, but it uses a bit for the alarm, remote, and related circuitry.  Add to that the self-discharge, and you end up with empty batteries before you know.

My in-dash meter normally (daily use) starts up at around 12 v (assuming that is the thick middle mark) and ends up at around 14 (3/4 mark) after a few minutes, if I don't switch on a lot of big consumers.


Hi Again,

Thanks for the input, You are making me feel a bit better, but with the size of the two battery's I would have thought it would have lasted longer.

The one thing I don't know, is the capacity of the batterys, looking at the size, I would have guessed about 500Ahr, but you mention 200 (is that each or for the pair?).

The dealer checked the Alternator and said it was putting out 14.75 Volts (at the time of testing, with battery's at 1/2 charged)

and they told me it was drawing 0.04A (40mA) when at stand-by with nothing switched on.

Now the car is 2.5 years old

back to the voltmeter, when it is first started it shows 9/10 Volt, then after two or three mins goes to the 14V reading!

Radiotwo
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HOG
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi don't realy understand problem.
I would be sluggish after sitting on drive for 4 months
4.2 desiel is a big lump to start.
Owners manuel, says. Do not crank engin for mor than 30 seconds at a time. as it may over heat starter and wiring. this surgest that its drawing huge current.
Which it is. it will be hunderds of amps. worked in development dept at crypton tuners. Tested MY 6.2 chevy desiel with current metre It was rated at 350 amps. Not enough, kept going of scale.
Are you familler with omes law? volts  resistance and current are directly linked to each other.
Say your batterys are not at there best, and you have done a lot of stopping and starting the engine. Then leave it for a period of 4 months.
batterys will not be topped up before resting up, they will drop volts due to the plated sulfating while resting. Plus general usageg of car while in standby. Tired batt cell will lose volts expinetioaly. (spelling not good)
With all this in mind, when you come to start after 4 months batt volts are down, so omes law say you have to have more current. Because the starter has the same work to do. If not more (dry engin,cob webs you know).
This will put your charging system in overdrive to revive batt plus any cells that are down. could take a bit of time to get to norm.
Biggest killer of battries is not working and charging them.
as you know cold weather will drop a bat down.
My surf use to take 1/4 - 1/2 mile in winter to come back up. you new when as the lights use to go brighter.
as i said in other reply you need to check each batt in turn one or two cells dow will make hell of a difference.
Tip of the day
current creates heat, turminal points ie stater and bat will be the first to show this as the conntacts will start to cook. this in turn causes oxidisation, which in turn increses resistance. which means you need more current, which means more heat. which means more oxidisation, which means more resistance. see were Iam going.
spent 15 years around people who new to much about car and tecnolagy to be normal.
Plus i burnt starter wireing out on my blazer because of all above. hand on experiance best there is.
But don't worry yourself im sure the bit about four months sitting on the drive, has somthing to do with it.
Mark
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RADIOTWO
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 19:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOG wrote:
Hi don't realy understand problem.
I would be sluggish after sitting on drive for 4 months
4.2 desiel is a big lump to start.
Owners manuel, says. Do not crank engin for mor than 30 seconds at a time. as it may over heat starter and wiring. this surgest that its drawing huge current.
Which it is. it will be hunderds of amps. worked in development dept at crypton tuners. Tested MY 6.2 chevy desiel with current metre It was rated at 350 amps. Not enough, kept going of scale.
Are you familler with omes law? volts  resistance and current are directly linked to each other.
Say your batterys are not at there best, and you have done a lot of stopping and starting the engine. Then leave it for a period of 4 months.
batterys will not be topped up before resting up, they will drop volts due to the plated sulfating while resting. Plus general usageg of car while in standby. Tired batt cell will lose volts expinetioaly. (spelling not good)
With all this in mind, when you come to start after 4 months batt volts are down, so omes law say you have to have more current. Because the starter has the same work to do. If not more (dry engin,cob webs you know).
This will put your charging system in overdrive to revive batt plus any cells that are down. could take a bit of time to get to norm.
Biggest killer of battries is not working and charging them.
as you know cold weather will drop a bat down.
My surf use to take 1/4 - 1/2 mile in winter to come back up. you new when as the lights use to go brighter.
as i said in other reply you need to check each batt in turn one or two cells dow will make hell of a difference.
Tip of the day
current creates heat, turminal points ie stater and bat will be the first to show this as the conntacts will start to cook. this in turn causes oxidisation, which in turn increses resistance. which means you need more current, which means more heat. which means more oxidisation, which means more resistance. see were Iam going.
spent 15 years around people who new to much about car and tecnolagy to be normal.
Plus i burnt starter wireing out on my blazer because of all above. hand on experiance best there is.
But don't worry yourself im sure the bit about four months sitting on the drive, has somthing to do with it.
Mark


Hi Mark

first of all, its not 4 months, its about 4 weeks !

but that is the problem, I am trying to determin if this volt meter problem has anything to do with the battery problems.

I am sure when I first got the car and I started it up, the voltmeter went up streight away, but now when the car has been left as I say about 4 weeks, the car starts and the voltmeter stays about 9/10 volts, for what seems ages but poss about 60secs, and I would have thought the volts should go streight away, if the voltage is low !


and re the starting current,I agree but as it is 24 Volts then the current should be low !

Steve
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HOG
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Joined: 24 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very sorry thought i read 4 months.
Any way, mine has two batts as well. But whey are wired in parralel not series. neg-neg pos-pos this only ads upto 12 volts. Plus the volt metre charges at 13.8 -14.5 normaly this would surgest that its a 12 volt system.
this is because charge voltage has to be greater than batt volts, if not it becomes a drain.
I don't know for sure. But i think that there is a clever charging system that dumps all charge back to the batt as quick as poss to maintain batt level.
Once batt at a volt level, charge level drops to trickle. Maintaing batt life. ie if batt hungre they will consume all current supplied this would explain why low volts.  
My surf did brighter light thing after short drive for 5 years with no problem at all. With lots of stop and start radio on for 24-36 hors while night fishing. Tthe only time it let me down was 10 days befor trade in for cruiser Evil or Very Mad . One week befor christmas. very cold spell.
check your batt if + is conected to +  its parallel only 12 volts
Waiting for manuel to turn up but busburywolf has one, helpfull chap get him to check. Its possibe that starter motor work at 24 volt . but wiring didnt look like it.  to obtain 24 volts heavy wire wold have to go between pos and neg. dos;nt do it on mine.
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armstrong75
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Radio Two,
I would forget about the in dash voltmeter, most fitted to cars are "hot wire" or "moving iron" instruments and not moving coil.  These do take a while to settle.
If you want to do the measurement, use a DVM, they are cheap from Maplins and the reading will be accurate immediately.
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Nor
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 21:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

'tis your intake heater grid keeping the volt down for the first minute.  Battery voltage wont go up until heater goes off again.
You will see less of it in the upcoming season....
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bungle1
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 13:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there Radio 2,
Just returned from holiday (200 miles yesterday) Started my 1999 4.2 diesel up for you about 5 minutes ago, Volt meter came up too just above centre mark and climbed to three quarter mark in about 10 seconds. I fitted new batteries about two months ago. Hope this is of some help.
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ciderman
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 20:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

the starter is 24v then relay switches out i believe that only one battery then runs the rest of the truck whilst the other is mainly for starting and it is normally just one battery that is down


andy
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Dave rtw
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 23:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

just bought one of these and the first thing i had to do was replace both batteries.
anyway,just about to whizz up to arctic circle and down to crimea and back,camping all the way;are those extra 12v sockets ,if in use all night,ie fridge and external light, liable to leave me in a nonstart situation?
are they split when the engine is off or is it something i should do,or leave it all alone.leaving next weds
dave
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ciderman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 0:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you run a 12v fridge then you will be in a non start situation as the fridge(12v socket) will kill your battery in around 3-5 hours.

i have had to jump start loads of people this year i work on campsites

andy
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