The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club

[MikeyB]

Hello
I have a KZJ95 updated 99 model manual diesel. Driving today i went to change from 2nd to 3rd but nothing happened, same with 4th gear. 5th gear works.
So im driving with 125 and R which is possible but not at all desirable for me, the car or other road users.
There was no clunk or any sounds at all and ive noticed no problems prior to this.
Any ideas what it may be? Im picking its not the synchronisers as theres no grinding.
Thanks in advance.
Note its done 550000k

[Google]

[BobMurphy]

Mikey,

The manual gearbox has three selector shafts and four selector forks (5th & Reverse share a shaft).

The Gear Lever is mounted in an extension housing with a short selector shaft that picks up the three shafts in the gearbox as the lever is moved across  from left to right.

It seems to be missing the middle selector shaft in the gearbox - possibly due to wear on the end.

I'm afraid its a "Gearbox out and strip-down" job - which isn't as onerous as it sounds as all the gear shafts etc are hung on a thick steel central web, the alloy covers come off to reveal the complete assembly (its easy to say   ).

That's not a bad mileage !

Welcome to the site.

Bob.

[MikeyB]

Hello Bob
Thanks for the reply with that information, thats a good welcome to this site.
I rung a few places yesterday and they all said it was a common problem but then gave different reasons for this common problem  
They all gave some pretty hefty quotes and that was just for fixing the box not for the actual removal etc
And i bet when they see a box thats done 600,000k they will find so much out of spec il be in for a debt a mile deep, i just need her back up and running.

I live rurally in New Zealand so sitting at home with a gearbox but no easy way to send it is no wishful option but i can get parts sent here so long as the post lady can carry them.
So im very pleased to read Bob that it slides off to reveal itself as pulling gears off etc and dealing with springs to get into it would add up the error rate for me.
Ive read your post on removing the box.
I will over this week get hold of a manual (well photocopy the relevant parts) and get any tools needed to get the job done.
I will post as i go so people can see how a amateur can get along on this job. I dont even have a concrete pad to work on, just grass where i will place some strong marine ply to spend the time on.
My background is ive rebuilt 2stroke outboards (due to being ripped off by a mechanic so i taught myself), done the head on my TE20 Ferguson Tractor and on this Prado ive done transfercase output shaft seals, cvs and the biggest job was removal and replacement of front diff pinon gear, which i eventually got right. So this will be a level up but with no option of affording to pay someone to do it i do have persistence on my side.
Your theory on whats gone wrong Bob seems a good one, my one by looking at a diagram makes me think the pin holding that selector fork may of come out.
The gearbox people were saying something like a disc in there has sheared off but it went without a bang, so bets are now in and we will see. The person who i read online had that happen and lost 3 and 4th had a massive crunching sound when the disc/gear thing went.
I will start early next week and i think i will remove the transfercase to start with to make it lighter for me. A friend is lending me his hydraullic jack.
From early research it seems i need a universal knuckle joint plus extensions for my socket that will get it to about 50cm long to get the bolts on top of the bell housing. A manual also states i need a torx40 socket to open the case.
If Bob you or someone else can comment on whether i need that socket thatd be great as as far as i know torx40 is a male type tool whereas a socket would be known as an E drive.

The specific quote is "using a T40 Torx socket, remove the detent plugs from the intermediate plate. Noting their installed location, remove the springs and the detent balls, using a magnet" This seems to come after the step of separating the housing off the main gearing so i may hopefully not need to do it, but i thought i better check i have it in case its needed as its a longer than a marathon to walk to anywhere that i could get equipment from around here. Looking on the outer edge of the gearbox housing today which i think is where these detent balls are accessed from, the torx (star pattern) bolts look not so big and would require a male, not a socket.
Cheers, i hope to start next monday after working the weekend

[MikeyB]

I had a look and im very sure its a typo and its a torx40 on the outside of the intermediate plate so i dont need to do that hopefully if the fix just involves removing the one shift shaft for 3/4th gear.
If anyone has any tips about how to remove the starter and tilt the motor so i can access the bolts on top of the bell housing then thatd be great.
Im now, as normal, over confident and ready to start next week

[BobMurphy]

Its a while (a few years) since I last removed the Transfer Box and Gearbox from my manual '95' (1998 model) but I seem to recall that I got to the top bolts on the bell housing from the back of the motor (under the bonnet). I didn't have to lower the rear of the motor for that (but it helps when removing the transfer box).

I've had a quick look at my pictures and I had to remove the front propshaft, Exhaust Header, Clutch slave cylinder and lower the front Anti-roll bar to get the gearbox out.

While its out you may like to check the clutch and replace the pilot bearing (AKA Spigot Bearing) in the centre of the flywheel - I made a slide hammer from a 12mm Rawlbolt and a collection of threaded rod, nuts and a large socket to draw it out.

Drain the oil before you start - or it will pour out of the rear all over you  .

I can't put pictures up since I closed my Photobucket Account (they upped the cost to $400 P.A., which was nonsense and far too much for my pension), but if you PM me your e-mail address I could send you some pics if they will help.

Best of luck.

Bob.

[diggerdave]

Good luck MikeyB. Hope the job goes well. I suppose a second hand box would've been too easy, right  
_________________
1997 KZJ90 3.0d, 2" suspension lift, 235/85/16 Cooper STT Pros. 217k hard miles

[MikeyB]

[MikeyB]

Thanks Bob, struth $400 for a photobucket account, no wonder i dont see those accounts around any more.
I only use free sites on the net, i dont mind the advertising on sites to keep them free, im not rolling in it to buy things so i guess i just dont notice!
Thats outstanding info regarding the top bolts. I will have a look tomorrow at that.
Ive put crc penetrating oil onto the exhaust bolts so all looks good for a start this coming Monday.
Il PM you about photos
And i will write up here what goes on

[MikeyB]

First day has being and gone so quickly here. I didnt get to where i wanted but thats typical for me and mechanics.
I came across a few little hurdles which i thought id update on. Im using a manual (sorry its photocopied so i dont recall what brand), im also using Bobs very informative thread on this http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7646&sid=0841674921d85a83b5ea4e49fb98e8d3 and some info from emails from Bob generously too.

The exhaust bolts i had for days sprayed in penetrating oil. They cracked (came loose) easily but required a sizeable torque bar. The studs can stay in, the exhaust drops out easy.
The clutch slave cylinder i just undid the bolts and ziptied it to the side out of the way. The main 17mm bolt holding it is a slight inconvenience, i got to it rather easily by using an extension and putting my ratchet on it up front, frontwards of the driveshafts etc facing back towards the clutch housing.
The top connection on the starter is a fixed bolt and you have to undo the 17mm nut on it. Its not the easiest to reach but i used a UJ socket and i hadnt lowered the gearbox by this stage. It was very tight. The tightest of all of these 17mm fasteners. But it cracked and came. I suggest anyone doing this job use penetrating oil on it before doing the job and make sure you have a high quality 12 point etc 17mm. Its not too bad but itd be close to bewilderment if you round the head on that. The bolt is very corroded on mine. Im wondering if thats something to do with the bolt working as an earth for the high voltage on the starter. I left the starter attached with its wires and sitting jammed in the area but out of the way.

The only bolt that has rounded off for me so far is the 12mm holding the stabiliser bracket on one side, i hope i dont need to remove this stabiliser bar, i cautiously suspect i wont need too.
The wiring i removed with the gearbox still right up. The wiring is joined to the gearbox all the way up to above the starter so be sure to release all the couplings that hold the loom to the gearbox all the way up there too.

The transfer case bolts are 12mm. Most are very easy even when covered in dirt. The two on the top are no fun at all. The passenger side one i got out by using two slightly different shaped 12mm spanners through the centre console,when one couldnt move anymore due to the restriction the next could be used. Perhaps a 3/8 UJ joint could work in there but a half drive is too big. On the drivers side i couldnt restrain myself as it was so difficult that i grabbed a big pipe wrench, bent the thin console metal back a little and accessed the bolt with the 12mm spanners on top there. I will panel beat that back later when i hopefully get up to installing again.

The main gear case oil came out clear, the transfer case interestingly had some shavings on the top around the shift lever and a little bit came out with the oil too.
There is a touch of play in the input shaft, im not sure if thats normal or if so how much is normal

The top two 17mm holding gearbox to engine are removed, they werent too bad with a UJ once i lowered the GB a bit but still arent pleasant. The bottom four 17mm just hold up a 1.5mm clutch cover plate.
Tomorrow first thing i will back out the two easily accessed 17mm middle bolts and drop her down. My concern is that the front diff flange may be in the way, its very close. I definitely dont want to undo that as it will loose the preload on it.
Hoping to have the main gearcase in the lounge next to the transfercase tomorrow night, split and with parts ordered

[MikeyB]

Day two update.
She came apart easy. Just slid back on the trolley jack with a very gentle pull. I had the engine propped up with a block of wood on the engine sump to support her when the gearbox was removed so she didnt tilt down too far. The fan was well clear from hitting the radiator.
The Stabiliser bar was never threatening to get in the way. The Diff flange was not in the way. Without the transfer case on she was relatively light. She pulled back quickly and far enough that i have no substantial concerns that she was hanging off the clutch input area as that can bend things bad.
The only issue was trying to get her out from under the car with it sitting on the trolley jack.
Taking her apart wasnt too hard. The 14mm bolts are on the ones which are more likely to get stuck so they eventually come undone.
The only thing that hindered me was it appeared the large outer bearing couldnt slip through the housing to then reveal the gears. Actually its just an exceptionally tight fit so i had to tap the edge of the bearing to get it started going through it.
Another tip is that the gearcase didnt seem to want to split until i had removed the rear electrical connector on the side of the housing. Im not sure what it does but its the rear one with the wires on, the only ones in this gearbox section.
Unfortunately when the housing slid off it didnt reveal a simple issue with the select fork. It looks like the splines have gone inside the 3 and 4 gear hub. I wont know for sure til i press them off. One person said the input splines can crumble but most shops are saying its normally just the hub. Hopefully its just the hub as thats about 100 pounds from a dealer and about 200 from Toyota. Obviously i wont know what its real fault is until i get it pressed off so im just trying to sort out a way to get it to a press to get this done while living in kind of a transport black hole. Its too heavy too strap to the back and heave out on foot, but if i need too.
Will update when i get further progressed with it

[MikeyB]

More progress on day three.
The aim was to get the input shaft off so the hub 3/4 gear could be inspected. This meant pressing off the adaptor plate on the end of the fifth gear. That needs a couple of 8mm bolts.
Then the small bearing on the main shaft needed to come off so the fifth gear fork could get past and out. This one was unusually tight. Things were said there today that 40 tonne was needed on that to move it. In hindsight i would of just removed the fifth gear shift shaft but i was too hesitant to dig further into the box only though this would of only required removing the springs and balls from behind the torx40 plug.
The secondary shaft eventually could be pulled out back and sideways and that left the input shaft free to be removed (its short). It doesnt go the whole length but is conjoined by the 3/4 gear hub to become part of the main shaft. I really dont understand how these things work.
This revealed a mash of metal. The splines on the inner hub had gone. Apparently they didnt make them fully around the whole bore in the factory (ive no dea why they wouldnt, i suppose they float easier like this) but replacement parts normally have it fully splined so i see that as an improvement.
The splines on the shaft are ok.
Next step tomorrow is to get the replacement part and not get too concerned about the reinstall of many many parts

[MikeyB]

Day four, i dont think ive lost track of time yet
I picked up the part from a specialist who works on them. Such a fluke he lives close. He had 40 cruiser transmissions all on his bench with this problem.
The splines arent around the whole circumference of the hub. Toyota still makes their part like this. Australia got sick of it and have made there own so i bought one of these with full splines.
Reinstall was easy but you have to be methodical. Things like which way things go dont seem front of mine when puling off but make sure they are if you do it. Had to look at wear marks etc to work them out.
And as for the synchroniser/locking plate orientation even the specialist got that wrong doing it for me til he noticed. It all comes down to bevels etc.
The adaptor plate and bearing went on easy. Heated up in il and banged on with a drift and small hammer, no 40 tonne needed there.
Hoping to clean and then seal her up today and check operation using gearshift lever

[MikeyB]

Day five
Relatively easy. put the casings together sealing it with gasket goo.
You need to check that the lever from the gearshift area slots into the shift holes which operate the forks but apart from that its relatively easy.
The front oil cover that retains the front bearings be careful where you put sealant on there as you wouldnt want to block up the channels to the bearing.
The top two 24mm gold and silver plugs just below the shift cover for the gearstick make sure you mark which one comes out of which side (ive no idea why one is gold and one is silver inside)
Ive checked gear operation by reinserting the stick so il install this main section tomorrow and the transfer case sunday, hopefully to short easy days.
The only other thing i can mention that was different from the manual is i didnt quite get the front retaining bolts up to 37Nm as they are only 12mm and i thought they were about to strip. I also greased the input shaft slightly before reinstall as the seal for the shaft is in there.

One thing i have noticed is that in the manual the front prop shaft from Transfer case to front diff has the thicker end on the front diff side. Im quite sure my car was the other way around. Im wondering is one way better than the other?
With the heavy end at the bottom water could run down the splines and into the prop, on the way mine was installed mud etc could be thrown up into that area.
My cars done 600000 so perhaps someone before me installed it the wrong way around?
If anyone has there car nearby and could say what theirs is that would be interesting.
cheers

[MikeyB]

One other thing the gasket under the gear stick is slightly metal and since its at the top of the gearbox i doubt she will leak so i just kept her, same as all the other washes.
Theres a magnet in the gearbox under the reverse gear, tucked in there so be sure to clean that out. Mine was full. I dont know why they dont have it on the plugs so you can clean when changing oil

[Roger Fairclough]