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Oil Polymerisation


 
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Ian-P
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Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Forest Deer, N Dorset.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 17:23    Post subject: Oil Polymerisation Reply with quote

Hi All,

I thought I’d share my experience with you as it may save some of you who run on veg oil some money!
I converted my 80 series about 2 years ago to run on veg oil. I bought a kit from DieselVeg, and fitted an OEM auxiliary tank and dual filler. I also adapted the kit by fitting a second fuel filter, and having the return line switch between tanks instead of it looping back to the pump ala DieselVeg.

I initially ran on new veg oil, and then switched to used oil that I filter to 1 micron. I’ve had a few problems. The fuel pump started leaking, and all the seals were replaced. I’ve had diesel bug twice, and I suspect that the pump is leaking again, but I’ve yet to find the leak! Generally I’ve been very pleased with the conversion, and apart from the problems with filtering the oil in winter it all works well. The latest batch of oil I have seems to have a little water held in suspension, and I’m seriously thinking of going down the centrifuge route to clean the oil.

As advised by DieselVeg, I change the oil on a regular basis, to avoid any potential problems with Polymerisation. This is generally about every 3 months (3500 miles).

I recently had 4 months off work, and didn’t do many long distance miles. I returned to work recently, and on my way home ( 200 mile round trip) I felt that the car was a little sluggish when overtaking, but I’d been working all night, was not thinking straight, and put it down to the veggie oil not being as clean as I’d like.

The next day, I was planning an ATF and engine oil change, and took the car for a drive to warm the oil. About 1 minute down the road, I thought the engine was a little clattery. I pulled over, wound the window down, and was greeted by a range of intermittent noises not pleasing to the ear. I immediately turned back home, and noticing that I had no oil pressure, shut the engine down. I pulled out the dipstick which was bone dry. I walked home and returned with some oil. The oil filler cap had thick jelly deposits and the warning bells were now at klaxon level. The car started instantly with full oil pressure and I drove home.

So far…………………….

I’ve flushed the engine twice.

I removed the rocker cover, and cleaned the jelly like polymerised oil from all the nooks and crannies. The cam shaft was undamaged.

The turbo was sent off to Turbo Technics and the diagnosis was oil starvation damage. Part of the casting was cracked (age related), and I’ve bought a reconditioned unit.

I dropped the sump, and recovered about a litre of polymerised jelly from the sump. I’ve cleaned as much muck out as I can from below, and have removed all six big end bearings. All were fine apart from number 4 (from front) which was scored and has left a slight ridge on the journal. This should polish off. I had replaced the bearings about six months ago.
I’ve done a compression test. The manual states this must be done when the engine is hot, so it’s difficult to relate the test to their figures. All showed signs of wear, number one being the worst in terms of initial pressure readings. The manual recommends adding a small amount of oil to the cylinder, and a further test. I don’t have the figures with me, but some showed an increase of about 80 psi, one increased by about 280 psi.

I’m no mechanic, but having spoken to the 4X4 garage who do my MOT’s, and lent me the compression tester, it is a strong possibility that while I was off sick, the engine was not getting up to temp before I switched over to veg oil. The rings have either gummed up, or are worn enough for the higher viscosity veg oil to enter the sump. It has also been suggested by Julian and the garage that over fuelling could be a problem. This is backed up by the black smoke on acceleration. I am going to take the head off and replace the rings. I will also send of the injectors for a service. Any recommendations?

I had hoped to be able to take off the ladder frame that holds the main bearings in place to inspect the bearings for damage. I don’t think I can remove the frame with the engine in situ, and so my dilemma now is whether to remove the engine in order to have a look at the main bearings, or do as both the 4X4 garage and my mechanic neighbour have said, and leave them alone. Their rational is as follows:

a) The engine was designed for operation in parts of the world where mechanical abuse is likely to be high.
b) The oil feed to the main bearings is greater than the big ends, and seeing as the cam, and 5 out of six bearings are okay, the chances of the main bearings being damaged are small.

Any advice from people who have physically changed their own main bearings would be much appreciated.

I’m normally fairly diligent at checking the oil, etc but this time I didn’t. If I’d pulled the dipstick and checked the oil, none of this would’ve happened. I could kick myself.

So that’s my story so far. I hope that this will be of use to someone, and prevent a similar occurrence.

Regards, Ian.
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Last edited by Ian-P on Tue Sep 02, 2008 14:18; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 17:23    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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ciderman
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Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 164
Location: back in derby for now

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 21:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think you will find that the oilpressure reading comes from the main bearing gallery so no oil pressure then no oil on the mains but if it was for not very long then you should get away with it Shocked

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Ian-P
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Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Forest Deer, N Dorset.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 21:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally got the cylinder head off yesterday. It weighs a ton! All the pistons except #4 (No 4 had the damaged big end bearing) had at least one ring that was gummed up. All the pistons except #4 had scoring, and all the cylinders were scored. I'm in the process of removing the engine, as I'm going to check the main bearings and go for a re-bore. Have any of you removed the gearbox or engine? How the hell do you undo the top engine to gearbox block bolts?

There'll be more to follow no doubt!
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jvoelcker
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1039
Location: Nr Ledbury, Herefordshire. UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 23:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ian,

Glad to see that you are still cracking on with it.

Ian-P wrote:
How the hell do you undo the top engine to gearbox block bolts?


You need to either lower the gearbox or engine, then you sholuld be able to get to the mounts.
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Cheers,

Julian
1994 HDJ80, with loads of mods without looking too obscene Smile
1997 KZJ95 - Gilly's - plain black and muddy on BFG ATs.
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KZJ90
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Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Ian.

How many mails/kms was in odometer, was there oil consumption before? I mean, is it possible that the engine´s compression pressure was lower than normal = blow-by? That would cause oil polymerisation easier.

And where have you collected your WVO? I´ve heard that Starch (comes from french fries) could couse problems, you can´t filter it completely away. Also Indian food restaurants uses so much some spices which dries in the system.
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vegmondo
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Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 11
Location: dorset

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 23:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say with the kit you would have been fine.I expect you had a problem with your rings b4 you started to  use oil..

The idea of looping ip is to keep oil hot in system and thats whey its been adived like that from diesel veg..
Did you contact them about this?

Ive done 50+k miles on veg in various cars using thier kit,and i know many others why have as well with no probs as all.....

Thats why the old chuck it in method is much more risky!
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Ian-P
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Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Forest Deer, N Dorset.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 14:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't contact DieselVeg over this as I have no issue with them. I was advised that the looped return line was not a good idea, as heated diesel loses some of it's lubrication properties. That is open to debate I suppose, but the advantage of having two return lines, is that the veg tank does warm up slowly. I'm currently planning a fuel booster pump, along with a coolant pre-heater which will enable me to switch to veg sooner and will also pre-heat the veg tank prior to engine start.
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