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Demountable winch plate

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Landcrusher
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 23:17    Post subject: Demountable winch plate Reply with quote

Guys, going round and round on the Tinterweb, trying to track down a carrier for my rear winch project. OK, there are several out there Devon4x4, Warn, TBR etc etc, but daft money and too big. Scrapiron do more or less this (as below) but they have moved and been taken over. Been ringing them for a week. Could be that they've folded. I think that theirs was about £130 ish. If anyone comes across one of these on their surfings, please let me know. I did find a UK company selling a 50mm draw bar on its own and was going to think about bolting a winch plate on top. Easy and cheap. But for the life of me I can't find them now. It was a foot long, with bolt holes in it and a cross pin. I really have looked.

This is from Draw-tite in the States. I can't find anyone who will ship to the UK. Some uk shopping sites list it in GB£ but the US site does NOT ship to UK. I'm sure that a local chap could make something up for me if I buy the winch tray. But if I can get a shop bought one for decent money, that's how I'd like to go. US ones tend to be 2" and EU tend to be 50mm. Mine is 50 exactly. The one in the pic is solid, so it would grind down. But I wouldn't do that to a tubular one. Please, sensible suggestions on this one. The solutions is out there but not for me if it's much more than about £80. This US one is perfect. I need to keep it as light and compact as possible. I would put rope handles on this if I had it. I'm not after great big grab handles. There are some 4x4 sites saying that they can make stuff up. Hmm, for a price. If I could burn and weld, I'd have made one this afternoon. You can get a winch tray that would cut down, in 5mm steel for about £30. I may have to do that and get the post welded on.

LC


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watling Engineering would probably sell you a 50mm draw bar but I don't know how much. 4x4winches.com list a DIY winch tray at the bottom of http://www.4x4winches.com/index.php?page=mounts.htm .
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Landcrusher
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I saw them Jon. Yet another unfriendly site that's rubbish to navigate around. I want picture, spec, price, order, deliver. The receiver I have takes standard box section. I think that I may have to buy a tray and have the box welded onto it. I just wanted something that looked nice for a change.  Crying or Very sad

LC
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landcrusher wrote:
Yes, I saw them Jon. Yet another unfriendly site that's rubbish to navigate around. I want picture, spec, price, order, deliver. The receiver I have takes standard box section. I think that I may have to buy a tray and have the box welded onto it. I just wanted something that looked nice for a change.  Crying or Very sad

LC


Hi LC

I know you have mentioned about making one, but there are pleanty of back street engineering shops
that I guess if you give them the dimenions they will make one up for about the £30 mark, and possabbly
be pleased of the work

Radiotwo
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right, of course, but I have a guy who does good work and some that I have spoken to and things are not as cheap as they were. That, despite the credit scrunch. What makes these things so cheap is mass production. Stick a blank in and wham, one winch plate. Having to design from scratch, set up etc is not cheap. If bending isn't an option, I'd have the fairlead welded on separately. All of this is a cost. £30 would be nice, but I fear not realistic given the time. I think that a winch plate in thick steel, bought from the net, it probably the best option, then get my guy to weld the bar on. A piece of 50x50 box is pence and his time running a couple of welds shouldn't be too much. I would then have to cut the tray down to size and retouch the paint. I will try Scorpion again, but things are very quiet there. Their website is not up to date either.

LC
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

If bending is not an option for your local guy, maybe a large piece of unequal angle would work for you. I have some 120x80x10mm but I don't think the 120 is quite big enough for your feet. You could put some tabs on the back to pick up the rear foot holes though and mill out or cut down the 80 side for the fairlead. You could probably mill out large areas under the drum to reduce the weight without making it too weak.
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Landcrusher
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 13:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure milling etc is his area. This is the sort of thing that I have been looking at. Any thoughts? Cut it down and weld on the arm underneath. Some of these are 5mm steel!

LC

http://cgi.e bay.co.uk/WINCH-MOUNTING-PLATE-HEAVY-DUTY-12000LB-RECOVERY-4X4_W0QQitemZ130290907080QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Trailers_Transporters_Parts?hash=item130290907080&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A2|240%3A1318
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 19:00    Post subject: scorpion racing Reply with quote

just looked at company house web site, they have 2 scorpion racing listed scorpion racing ltd is in liquidation, scorpion racing uk ltd is still running and this is there the name for there uk company reg number. so who know what's going on.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 19:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jambo.

as far as I know it was the original Scorpion Racing that went into liquidation, the new one bought whats left and set up at a new location. Think that is the Scorpion Racing UK ltd.
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Landcrusher
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 20:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the research on that. Their site says 'under new management' let's hope they're more helpful and polite than the last bunch of !@*&!*s who had it before.  I hate web sites with no prices. It's like going into a shop where nothing has a price on it. It drives me nuts. When you ring for a price, you'd think that you were asking for a special service.

They have moved from their base somewhere near the North Circular area to Waltham Cross. Well, I'll give them one last try in the week. Then I'll order a tray from somewhere. It's bonus announcement week for us, so I may have a few pennies to spare. Laughing

LC
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 22:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

LC , Bonus ? your real names not Fred is it ?? or do you work for Lloyds ??  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 23:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landcrusher wrote:
Not sure milling etc is his area. This is the sort of thing that I have been looking at. Any thoughts? Cut it down and weld on the arm underneath. Some of these are 5mm steel!

LC

http://cgi.e bay.co.uk/WINCH-MOUNTING-PLATE-HEAVY-DUTY-12000LB-RECOVERY-4X4_W0QQitemZ130290907080QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Trailers_Transporters_Parts?hash=item130290907080&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A2|240%3A1318
It's a bit difficult to tell from the picture what thickness material that's made from but it looks quite thin for your application. As part of a bumper it would probably have a lot of support all round and be very strong but with just a bar under the middle it it'll be in danger of bending quite easily (IMO but I'm not an engineer). Some sort of arrangement of reinforcement from the plate back to the central bar might work but it's getting messy and complicated again?

What thickness material was used on the mount pictured further up?

I don't know for sure what I'm going to do about a winch on my 100 but I may very well go the demountable route like you. If I do and needed a winch mount, at the moment I'd be inclined to get a piece of 8 or 10mm plate sized just over the winch footprint, weld a couple of triangular / shaped pieces to the front for a fairlead support and then the bar underneath for vehicle mounting. If it was a bit heavy I'd probably mill out some slots in the foot plate under the drum.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Jon, that was simply an example. The one that I was looking at was 5mm plate but I couldn't remember the link at the time. Clearly thinner ones get their strength from being bolted to the deck.

I think 5mm is fine. That's thick! My winch mount is 6mm steel in a box. It really has to resist tearing under load. The fairlead doesn't take any really force. But the plate needs to be thick enough to stand a good weld. Too think and it will distort. Box section used in the draw bar is typically only 3mm wall - but in a box of course.

LC
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landcrusher wrote:
I think 5mm is fine. That's thick!
A flat plate of 5mm steel doesn't take much force to fold at all  Wink I know I have a tendency to over engineer stuff but I've seen how easily things bends when used in anger.

Landcrusher wrote:
But the plate needs to be thick enough to stand a good weld. Too think and it will distort.
I can't think why that would be the case if you use the right power setting, it's not a problem I have and as you can probably tell I tend to go for the thicker options  Laughing
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01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP
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Landcrusher
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 20:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you on the proper engineering Jon. trust me. But a chain is only as strong as the weakest link remember. The mounting points on the winch are cast alloy. I reckon that on a straight pull, you'd bust the casting before the 5mm plate. I like my winch mount because you turn the winch through 90 to go feet first. That way the bolts are really only there to stop the winch from falling off. This will be mounted feet down. It's not the main winch and is like to be under little strain in use. As you know, it's not a comp vehicle. This is just fro when I drop the front wheels in a ditch. Not for hanging off a cliff. If I have one made from scratch, I may have a thicker plate and thread the holes too rather than have them blind and over sized. We'll see. But I do appreciate the advice - that's why I asked.

I'm not a welder, so I bow to your knowledge. All I am saying is that I want good penetration on this but the box is going to be 3mm wall. Having something thicker than that for the plate won't allow greater penetration due to the limitation of the box section? More amps and it'll blow into a hole won't it? I would rather have some gussets welded in.

LC
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