The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club

[francipe]

Hi newish to the forum. Bought my 1998 LC 90 Colorado lwb 3.0 td from a friend's son. He got it on e bay with long service history BUT ... It has a cold start valve fitted to the fuel rail which has been bodged and isn't wired up. Mr T has never seen the like before. Like this when I got her 2 and a half years ago. Told starting procedure from cold is to switch on and off 3 times, go pedal to the floor and wind 'til she starts. Parked nose down so fuel shouldn't drain back to tank.
I'm fed up with the stink and cost of unburnt diesel and with flattening the batteries so called Green Flag who checked the batteries and said they were ok. He used Easy Start and had a multi-meter that didn't work!. My mechanic (and others) says that Easy Start is ether based and addictive but once started she is fine the rest of the day, so only 1 in 4 Easy Starts. My man's multi-meter works and showed no power to the glow plug bridge (aka buzz bar?) so having found a box under the hood marked Glow Relay I got a new one from e bay £55 put it in and then noticed the words Glow 80amp on the fuse box lid. DOH!
Bought new fuse and failed to yank out the old one (my Monteray/Trooper had nice female PAL fuses) coz it's bolted in. So I disconnected the batteries (drivers side off for access, n/s left neg lead on or it bleeped - presumably the immobilisezer) unbolted the fuse box, split it apart, undid outside fuse bolt and then...
Found the 60amp ABS fuse in a beige fitting blocks access to the bolt in the middle of the box. Couldn't budge the ABS fuse block. Rang Mr T in Tunbridge Wells but they've 'only been open 12 years' and have never worked on a car that old.
Anyone done this fuse change or got any good suggestions? 15 minute job now heading into the third hour. Sob ...

[Google]

[BobMurphy]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum (where people with problems meet  ).

It sounds as though someone has been trying to fix a starting problem by adding stuff instead of finding the root cause. My inclination would be to put everything back to standard and proceed from there.

Do you have the 'Max Ellery' manual for the car ?? Its not brilliant but is better than nothing and will help when sorting out the standard wiring diagram.

What we really need is someone in the Sevenoaks area who understands these trucks to pop over and give you a hand - ANY TAKERS ??

Failing than, we need pictures - but you won't be able to post any until you have 10 or more postings (anti-spam measure).

I haven't taken the fuse box apart on my 1998 LWB '90' so would be guessing. I usually work on the principle that "someone put this together on an assembly line so I should be able to take it apart", it just takes a long time to work out how (sometimes).

You could, as a temporary test, run a heavy lead from the battery to the Glow Plug rail and see if it starts better from cold. If you have a multi-meter test the resistance or each Glow Plug - it should be around 0.7 Ohm. 1 Ohm or more is bad.

Good luck with the fuse box - hopefully someone who has done this will be along shortly  .

Bob.

[tim falce]

[francipe]

Hi Bob,
I've read many of your posts and you are obviously an excellent fount of knowledge. Along with many others on this site.

I don't have the Ellery manual but did see a pdf manual on e bay a while back. Are these any good?

It may not be a fuel rail but it's alloy and runs across the engine near the bulkhead. The accelerator cable is attached to it. The valve is probably as you suggest a bodge and I intend to ignore it - my only other option is to contact the garage in East Anglia that fitted it and they aren't likely to remember this from over 4 years ago.

The fuse probably gave out in a fit of jump starting. If the new one blows then yes it's another thing to debug.

I found an old thread with a wring diagram and it seems if the fuse and relay replacement doesn't result in power to the bridge the other things are the wire connection to the bridge (mine has tape beginning to unfurl) or the timer. Don't know where the timer is or what it looks like but one step at a time. Said the guy replacing fuse and relay.

The car is booked in with a local garage for Wednesday. He's not a Cruiser expert but is in the Good Garage Guide and doesn't rip me off. This is just basic auto electrics so he should be able to cope and jury rig power to the bridge.

Thanks for your help. If/when I get the fuse in I'll post something about how it was done.

Peter

[DaveWall]

I would go for testing the glow plugs first, remove what you describe as the buz bar, and check the resistance of each, make sure they are not shorting to earth.

Then as Bob says get a thick bit of long cable (ideally with a big fuse in the end).  Disconnect the live wire to the glow plugs (and insulate the end just incase it does come live when trying to start).  then touch test the wire straight from the battery (give it 5 secs) make sure the wire doesn't get too hot (which would also indicate a short). then if long enough put a switch in and manually try the glow plugs....

If this does work - then start messing with the glow plug relay circuit - or even just buy a new glow plug relay and give yourself a glow plug button on the dash.

I agree above - if the big fuse has blown, something is shorting badly.  Have you had a look at the glow plug relay?

[tim falce]

Agreed with Dave on fitting a switch on the dash, it's a lot easier as then you know the plugs are on or off. I ended up doing this on my old Vauxhall Corsa after I found out the glow plugs had been on for around three years and after two batteries and two alternators the AA found the problem one night when it wouldn't start. The problem turned out to be a £5 sensor in the head but in finding it I accidentally blew the timer relay which was £70 to replace. A separate switch and warning light was the cheaper more reliable option and has been fine since.

[tim falce]

One other thing, if you start trying to remove the glow plugs do it when the engine is hot and be very careful as they can strip or break easily.

[francipe]

Hi Dave, thanks for your thoughts.
I got new plugs from Milners and fitted them a few months ago as that seemed to be the cheapest and easiest possible answer to the cold start issue. Nothing changed. I've just changed the relay. I agree there may be a short but a new fuse will tell me that and hopefully if I have power to the glow plug bridge.
Leaving the possible short issue to one side, from what I've read and seen on the forum the wiring runs from ignition through the fuse and relay, to the timer and then the glow bridge. So if I follow that route I should get warm plugs. Eventually.
I'm not ignoring the advice you guys are giving me (because you actually know what you're talking about and I'm just doing an impression of Mr Spock) but without a new fuse I don't know if I have a short or power to the plugs. And surely fuses are supposed to be replaced when they blow? If the new one blows it's cost me a couple of quid and I know I have a short. If it doesn't I either have warm plugs or there is a fault in the wiring or the timer.
My mechanic has more tools and experience than me, so I'll get him to check the plugs on Wednesday. If necessary I'll cut the side of the fuse box to get the ABS fuse holder out and the new glow fuse in. Then I'll know where I stand. Sobbing quietly in a dark room seems possible. Ho hum.
Peter

[trooperman]

I had a similar problem, changed the glow plugs first but that made no difference, then through this forum learned there's a problem with the fuel pipes on the top of the tank, mine had small holes in them so changed those, still not starting right, so fitted o one way valve on the fuel line to the lift pump and problem solved, starts 1st turn every time again

[francipe]

Thanks for that Trooperman. My Big Friendly Giant is parked nose down on a sloping drive, so the fuel shouldn't drain back to the tank. And unburnt diesel is thrown out the back so I don't think it's lack of fuel.

[tim falce]

I suppose at 170K you could have an injector problem, I had similar starting problems with my wife's Clio and it turned out to be a couple of injectors leaking back although that's common rail so a different system to what we have.

[francipe]

Hi Tim, I have seen injectors suggested in other threads but I obviously don't want to think about that until the power supply has been stored and probably not even then! Would the injector problem affect warm start? Coz it's fine the rest of the day. Just Easy Started and nothing coming out of the exhaust initially and just just wispy white condensation now that she's warming up on a cold day.
Peter

[tim falce]

With the Clio it's direct injection and common rail and it would only start on easy start from cold but fine when warm. The problem was a couple of injectors leaking back and the rail was losing pressure, I'm not sure it would have the same effect with the Toyota but you could get someone who knows to check the injectors before going to the trouble and expense of buying new. From reading on here your problem could well be the pipes at the tank leaking and I'd be starting with the stuff that costs least first so although It's a pain to do, once you've sorted the glow plugs I'd be looking there or even fit a one way valve near the filter as has been suggested.
Why not try a direct feed from the battery to the plug rail as your first port of call before spending time and money on things that may not need doing. You could even hold a wire on by hand and get someone inside to start it.

[trooperman]

Mine would turn over for about 5 seconds then start with a load of black smoke out the back, the valve was a £5 worth a try idea and it worked

[DaveWall]

If you have no power to the glow plugs then that's a good place to start.

They really are simple items - can you get a length of wire from somewhere , attach one end to the positive terminal on the battery - disconnect the power lead that is joined on at the end of the row of glow plugs, then manually warm them by literally touching the other end of your new bit of wire to the end of the first glow plug and counting to 5 (maybe 10).

Have the truck in neutral/park and window down then reach in and try the key very quickly....

This is basically bypassing all of the glow plug electric circuit to see if the glow plugs being warm solve the starting problem