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Vibration on coming to a halt

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Boatman
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Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Gloucestershire

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 19:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bungle1,

Glad to hear you've found someone who seems to have experience of fixing this problem, and good luck for getting it fixed on 2 Feb. I shall be very interested to hear the outcome.

A couple of queries in the meantime: Do they replace this naff washer with another one the same, or something better? Also it would be interesting to know how many miles yours has done and how hard it has been worked. I bought mine at 81,000 and it's now done 125,000. I regularly tow my boat (about 3 tons including the trailer) between Gloucestershire and West Wales and the car is inevitably loaded up with people and kit as well, so the transmission has been worked fairly hard on occasions.

Like you, I have been very disappointed with the attitude of my local dealer who was also unable (or unwilling) to explain the cause of the problem to me in detail. If your man can do the fix for £450, I would be quite keen to let him have a go at mine as well ! Do you know the total time he will need the vehicle for?
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bungle1
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Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 26
Location: norfolk

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there Boatman,
I was informed by the Auto Box Repair Company (J.R. DAIN) that the washer is made up of a different material too that fitted by Toyota. My 100 series has covered 84,000mls. It has never towed (no tow bar fitted) But I intend to tow my caravan so I have to have this right. As I said before I was told that this new washer when fitted should outlast the vehicle. Thinking about all this, you would think that Toyota, knowing that they had a problem with this particulat Torque converter would have issued a recall, the fault is well known in the trade but nothing seems to have been done to rectify the problem, until they bring out a new model and knowing the cost of these monsters from new you would think they would make the effort. I never had this problem with my 80 series, so why with the 100 series. Maybe there was a recall issued but the dealers decline to pass it on, who knows?????????
Anyway I will post the results when my one is repaired. By the way I will lose the vehicle for a week
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bungle1
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Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: norfolk

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 21:03    Post subject: Vibration on coming to a halt Reply with quote

Hello all,

Well I received a phone call this afternoon to say come and collect your Amazon all has been repaired. I took it into a J.R.Dain (Norfolk) late Thursday 2 Feb. for the Torque convertor to be repaired. Picked it up complete with a lifetime warranty on the T/C.at 5.30pm this evening. I have given it a very good run around and really put it through its paces. Its a different vehicle. The gear change is crisp, and quicker. The response to kick down is far better than before, there is no vibration when it comes to a halt. It seems to hold onto the gears longer. Theres much more pulling power. It has certainly made a vast improvement. I must have been living with the fault and not realising just how bad it was becoming Sad Sad Sad but now well what can I say Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy . The total cost with 6lts of atf and v.a.t. was £524.03 paid with pleasure. By the way the brake feel sharper, that may be because I overhauled them completely and now the Torque convertors doing its job properly the brakes do not have to work so hard. So there is my story a happy ending I hope?? Just to add I did a couple of stall tests in D & R before I took it in. I could not get it to stall at the recommended revs, it just would not stall, this is apparently due to the lack of pressure caused by the faulty composite washer. I never had all this trouble with my 80 series.!!!!!!!!!!

All the best, thanks for reading my tales of woe and for everyones replys all is not lost

Bungle1
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Grimbo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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Location: Ashdown Forest

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 22:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good news for you, good to have a positive result and feed back, it's often fustrating to not hear the resolution of someones post/ problem. Hears to one happy 100 owner. not sure I'm going to rush and change my 80 for a 100 now though !!! better the devil you know etc.... Smile
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Boatman
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Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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Location: Gloucestershire

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good news indeed, Bungle1 ! The improvement sounds impressive.

I did an internet search for torque converter problems and found a lot of reference to very similar symptoms to ours on a Ford website - mainly Granadas and Scorpios, I think. This made me 99% certain the problem was in the torque converter, and your report has now confirmed that beyond all doubt - many thanks for sharing your troubles on the forum.

I have located a torque converter and automatic transmission specialist just south of Bristol who seemed to know exactly what the problem was when I described the symptoms. They quoted £200 to recondition the TC, including fitting new friction material to the stator lock up mechanism which, they say, is the root of the problem. Perhaps this is the same thing as the "naff washer" your chap referred to? They reckon they can complete the job in a day. As this is quite a bit closer to me than Norfolk, I decided to give them a try. Only snag is they just want the TC - they haven't got facilities to take it out of the vehicle.

My local garage have estimated a labour charge of "about £180" to take out the TC and refit it when I bring it back reconditioned, so I have decided to tackle it this way. In fact, they are due to take the TC out for me tomorrow (Wed). I plan to deliver it to the guys in Bristol as soon as it's out and hope to be able to collect it by close of play Thursday so the garage can refit it Friday. That's the plan, anyway. Including some ATF and the dreaded VAT, it looks as if our costs will be very similar.

More details to follow as the story unfolds . . .
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bungle1
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Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: norfolk

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

This one is for Grimbo, I ran an 80 series for about 5-7 years, it was't all trouble free, believe me, but the auto box/torque convertor never let me down. Infact I cannot ever remember any torque conv. letting me down. I am a retired Police Driver apart from serving an appreticeship as a Mechanical Technician/Engineer for five years plus four post apprenticeship. I did thirty two years driving for the Police with millions of miles behind me, a vast majority of those miles were in auto's never remember any vehicles auto box going wrong.
I have not had the 100 series for to long, but it is proving to be a better vehicle, the brakes are better, using the active suspension as it should be used is brilliant, on hardest setting around the country lanes it has proved very taunt and fast, no wallowing or understeer, no need to explain what it is like on the motorway at its softest. Like driving a sette. My engine is a tubo 24 valve, its quiter and I feels more responsive. The front drive shafts on the 100 series would appear easy to replace with no troublesome oil seals, like the 80 series, boy did I have some trouble with that set up. I do believe that fuel consumption is also slightly higher, but when you own a Amazon you cannot even think about that equation. There are lots of pros & cons to argue about on both models but don't forget developement is progression. Have a few test drives in the 100 series I do not think you will be disapointed. I hunted for over a year trying to find another decent 80 (none out there) but on reflection I am glad I up graded. I feel that I can say, that apart from a very few cars, you will not beat a Toyota Amazon, it is one amazing vehicle

Bungle1(PS don't get the hankies out yet)
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bungle1
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Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: norfolk

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Boatman,

Sorry I got carried away with the above.

Good luck with yours today, hope you notice the changes like I have keep us inform.

Bungle1
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Grimbo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 22:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for feed back on 100 series, if I change for any thing then thats the way I'll go, so many things to spend money on, so little money !! Laughing
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Boatman
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Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Gloucestershire

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 13:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

Well, another major success story, I'm pleased to report. Very Happy

I was very impressed with the service and particularly the speed of turnaround of http://www.jpat.co.uk, the people who refurbished the torque converter for me. The car was only off the road from Wednesday lunchtime until early afternoon Friday!
My local garage took the torque converter out for me on Wednesday afternoon, and called me at about 16:00 to say it was ready for me to collect. I immediately phoned JPAT to find that they closed nominally at 17:00 "but there's always someone here till about half-past". When I said I hoped to be there by about 17:20, they very helpfully agreed to wait for me if I was running a bit late. Dropped it off right on my ETA of 17:20.

JPAT phoned me at 13:00 Thursday to say it was all repaired and ready for collection, so I got it back to the garage by 16:00 that afternoon, ready for them to refit it Friday morning. They were as impressed as I was - it would be fair to say they had been a bit sceptical when I booked the car in on the basis that JPAT had said they could recondition the unit in a day! Anyway, by 14:00 yesterday (Friday) they phoned me to say it was all done and ready to collect.

Just as Bungle1 reported, the car feels completeley different, upshifts are crisper, the downshift from O/D to third has lost that soggy, mushy feel and it happens as soon as you hit the button. Oh, and when you brake at a junction it just slows down and stops !! Smile Now I will have to train my left hand to stop reaching for the selector as I slow to a halt - I hadn't realised how often I was doing this !

Costwise, JPAT charged me £225.65 to refurbish the torque converter, and the garage took 6.5 hours to remove and refit it. With a few litres of atf, their bill came to £243.94. So for a total outlay of less than £470 (plus a tankful of unleaded in the wife's car) I am very pleased to have everything fixed. Especially as our nearest Toyota Dealer quoted "about £1,500" to fit a new torque converter without any guarantee that that would fix the problem.

I should add that I have no connection with JPAT, other than as a very satisfied customer, and I would have no hesitation in recommending them to anyone. Well done, indeed!
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bungle1
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Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: norfolk

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 19:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there Boatman,

Glad to hear that your repair was as successful as mine, the result appears to be the same, smilley faces all round eh.
I hope that others in the club note the problems and remember the result, there are gods out there, and they do not all wear a Toyota symbol. Good luck to you. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Bungle 1
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The Silver Bear
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Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 13:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bought my Amazon 4.7 in the early summer.  Great car from day one but suffered from slight vibration on coming to a halt, as discussed throughout this thread.Symptoms were EXACTLY as described and I tried everything as recommended i.e into neutral pre braking etc etc.  Was planning on have the torque converter and all associated parts replaced pre summer hols and just ran out of time. 2500 miles through Europe  and returned with the same symptoms but NOT any worse (I had European cover just in case).  In for it's service 6 weeks ago (I had one when I first bought it) and the front pads needed renewing.  Out of the garage and the vibration has gone COMPLETELY.  This had ALL the symptoms of the torque converter issues as described but resolution cost less than a tenth of the price.  As an aside, whilst chatting to the mechanic he mentioned that  sometimes the alloy wheel cleaner that dealers/traders use prior to sale can pit the alloys temporarily and cause the same symptoms. Cautionary tale, may well be prudent to properly eliminate the cheaper solutions prior to going down the expensive torque converter path!  Smile
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bungle1
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Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: norfolk

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:41    Post subject: Vibration on coming to a halt Reply with quote

Hi there Silver Bear,

I have just read your comments concerning your slight vibration problem. I would like to point out that when a torque convertor does start to give you problems you get more than a slight vibration, the feeling is more of the whole vehicle shuddering just for a few seconds, but it is so noticeable that it becomes worrying, if its left for too long the vehicle will stall when it changes into first(auto) and comes to a halt.
Come on you do not really believe that pitted alloys will give you any symptoms of this nature do you? I would have thought that your problem was being felt through the steering wheel and not through the vehicle itself.
Keep up the pressure.

Bungle 1
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Boatman
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Location: Gloucestershire

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 13:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver Bear,

Just adding to bungle1's comments:

In my case the acid test (no pun intended re pitted alloys . . . Laughing ) that confirmed the problem was transmission related rather than brakes was that the vibration didn't change when applying/easing the brakes, but it stopped completely when neutral was selected.

In respect of your comment re alloy wheel cleaner causing vibration problems, I could believe that (slightly) if it was left on the brake discs for a long time without the vehicle being used - wheels cleaned and vehicle left parked without being moved for a week or two on a used car lot, perhaps?  This might cause the discs to corrode unevenly if wet cleaner was not rinsed off thoroughly but left trapped behind the pads.
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bungle1
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 14:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Silver Bear,

Don,t like to say this but my wife pointed out that this is how my prolems with the Torque convertor started. Vibration, then it dissapeared for a few weeks, came back, stopped again. Then came back with a vengence. What more can I say. Bewareeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee  

Bungle1
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The Silver Bear
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Joined: 19 Jun 2006
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Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 17:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys, I was merely passing on my experience and relating it to examples and symptoms quoted in this and other threads. The vibractions/shudders were felt through the steering wheel, pedals and gear change lever. I fully accept that they did not cause it to stall and am glad that it was resolved. As for the comment re alloy wheel cleaner - this was mentioned to me by a mechanic and NOT a diagnosis of my problem. The point I was making was that by reading some of the threads it may have been possible to make an incorrect 'amateur' diagnosis which could cost a lot of dough without solving the problem. To be honest I am glad that I am without the symptoms today and hope that they do not reappear Smile Apologies if I did make myself clear.
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