The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club

Landcrusher

Some of you may know Charlie and Nina who are overlanding halfway around the World. They have been going great guns and are currently in Thailand. But this Morning, their 90 IKZ-TE auto (s plate) would not start.
Now, the local Toyota guys have got it running with a work around, BUT they speak little or no English and Charlie doesn't actually know what the problem was, but simply that they think that it needs to go into a garage.

I have been in touch all day and said that I would post on here for words of wisdom. Here are the things that we know.

The batteries are good
The engine spins freely and the starter motor is engaging fine
There is fuel in the tank
Clearly fuel is getting through as it is now running
It makes NO attempt to fine - fuel filter changed
Glow plugs seem OK according to mechanic
The problem came on instantly, not a developing fault.
They replaced the fuse in the panel by their knee (type B - 30 amp)
This is probably NOT the injector pump either. It's something electrical that is either firing or not firing as it should

As we need to get them going with confidence, can I ask for learned suggestions only here rather than guess work? I am not qualified in understanding diesel engines and their mysteries.

It is not connected to the immobilizer as far as we know. The mechs took the ECU out and put it back, they also seem to have run a wire from the diagnostic box to somewhere on the engine.
So they have fuel and compression. I know that diesel engines will run until stopped. Could it be that the stopping mechanism is open and therefore the engine can't start?

Yes, it's a 90 - but this is about diesel engines per se.

Now Charlie and Nina are not the best at knowing what someone else has done to their car, so some of the intel may be suspect re what the mechs have done.

But any help would be appreciated including an explanation of how a diesel engine starts, runs and stops with the components / processes involved.

Thanks folks Let's get them on their way.

Chris
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

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wildsmith · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 22:01 Post subject:

I believe the best way to check fuel is getting to the injectors is to crack the nuts a little and check fuel squirts out obviously under pressure as the engine is turned over. This would establish there's fuel to burn.

If there's no fuel at the injectors I would pull the fuel pipe off at the filter / other convenient point and pump the primer (assuming it has one) to check fuel comes out.

Assuming there's fuel pumped I'd put my finger over the end of the pipe going to the pump and check for suction while turning the engine over.

If the primer pumps fuel and the pump sucks, put the pipe back on and prime it.

I they get this far the problem is in the pump so next check is the shut off solenoid. Usually this is an electro magnet that lifts a plunger when 12v is applied. It could be that no power is getting to it or it could be faulty. On an 80 you can remove the solenoid, pull the plunger out of it and put the solenoid back in the hole to keep the fuel in! In this state the engine can only be stopped by stalling (manual) or pulling the fuel pipe off and waiting for it to stop (not long on an 80 Laughing

)

See how far they get with some of that next time it fails to start?
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Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP

bigyun · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 22:02 Post subject:

LC, is the wire that the techs put on still on there? If so then it is most likely they have sent a direct feed to ERS engine run solenoid, bypassing the ECUs. The fuel shut off valve is the only direct electrical item on a diesel engine. This solenoid is simple in operation, when engaged it allows fuel to get through and when you want to stop the engine it shuts thus stopping fuel getting to the injectors and stopping the engine.

How are they starting and stopping the engine at the moment?

Bigyun
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98 Colorado, LWB, OME suspension 40 mm lift, Safari snorkel, ASFIR belly plates. TBR winch mount with Warn M8000 winch

Landcrusher · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 22:20 Post subject:

Thanks Guys. That does sound like a possibility. They currently just use the key to run it. But I think that the wire is still in there. Charlie called it a relay, but I think he means by-pass.

The Toyota guys didn't need to do any of that to make it run. It was all about wires etc. There is fuel - it runs fine. It sounds like the start stop mechanism as I alluded to I just didn't know what it was called and where it was.

Chris.
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

Paul_Humphreys · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 23:11 Post subject:

Chris, I do not know the 90s 3.0l engine. But is there a cut off solarnoid on the injection pump? If there is I have had this on LRs, if it is not getting power then it will not start. Easyest fix is to run a wire from the battery, remove it to stop!!

Paul
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LC 80 series 1993. 285/75/16s Cooper SSTs, OME 850s on the front with 25mm packer, 868s on the rear. 4.88 diffs. Winch bumper with 12000lb winch.
HD rear bumper with wheel carrier and winch mount.

http://www.crag-uk.org
http://www.4x4responsewales.org

Landcrusher · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 23:15 Post subject:

Have relayed this to Charlie, but there is a 7 hour time difference so they are snuggled up at the moment.

I have asked for a picture of the various bits that have been twiddled with. It could be the solenoid / valve bit or the system section that send power in the first place. Knowing how robust and reliable T's are, it is probably the component that has failed. I hope.

C
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

Roger Fairclough · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 0:11 Post subject:

Most likely fuel cut off valve. If it has to be disabled, best way to stop engine is to starve it of oxygen.

Roger

Landcrusher · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:36 Post subject:

Thanks Fellas

Car is now with main dealer. Charlie and Nina have translated responses to the mechanics. They have no gone to Burma without the vehicel (i think that ws partly planned anyway) and will not be back in touch until 2nd Dec. It does sound like the ECD relay for the fuel cut off valve by all accounts.

No further replies necessary on this one for the benefit of Charlie and Nina anyway as they will not get back in touch until Dec by which time their car will be fixed - complete with new rear diff lock too!

C
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

Wandering Willy · ******* Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Posts: 1016 Location: Norfolk

I wonder if the fuel filter has been changed recently?

If so,, I would make a guess that the seal on the filter is letting a bit of air into the fuel supply pipe. This happened to me and the engine turns but doesn't start. If you prime the filter with the little pump button you can get the engine to run but if the car has been standing overnight, it can take 15 minutes of pumping to get the fuel back up from the tank.

If this is the case, check that the seal on the top of the filter is sitting correctly - not twisted or lopsided. Run the engine until the engine bay is warm, then re-tighten the filter onto the warm seal. Don't overdo the tightening or the housing can break, but with the seal warm it makes a better seal.

Sorry if this sounds a bit obvious and too simple but it has happened to me and the symptoms here match.

Willy
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100 Series 2002 GX diesel automatic