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Engine stalling

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nathanrobo
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Joined: 20 Nov 2008
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Location: Northants - UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 14:53    Post subject: Engine stalling Reply with quote

Guys

I'm somewhat out of my depth and looking for help (very little diesel experience)!  I think I may have problems with my fuel pump???  There are a few symptoms that may or may not be related, so here we go:

I posted recently on a bit of judder when pulling up (felt like a manual pulling up without the clutch depressed), this happened 3 times only.  Based on Jon Wildsmith's advice I had intended to strip the gearbox out this week and replace the torque converter.  On Saturday I got lent on to take some Australian friends back to Heathrow (about 100 miles each way).  On the way back, in the outside lane of the motorway the car simply died with all the dashboard lights coming on.  I pulled on to the hard shoulder, the truck restarted no problems but died again before I even left the hard shoulder.  Next start went about 5 miles before the same happened and then a further few times.  Eventually I managed to nurse the car home.  I changed the fuel filter the next day but this made no difference.

I've tried pulling off the flow and return pipes, and fuel does flow but not at the pressure that I expected, additionally although the tank is 3/4 full when I took off the fuel cap you could hear the air rush in.  Two other pieces of info that could be relevant are that I have used very low concentrations of Biodiesel (about 20% good quality 27/3 tested) and the car has covered just over 80K miles.

I contacted Diesel Bob who has quoted me £1500 and slammed Landcruisers, which is a pity because my last truck gave me 4 years of fairly trouble free driving.  Does anyone have any advice?  Could I strip out the pump and rebuild myself without specialist tools?  Are there other parts that I should consider?  I've spent out a lot recently on this truck and I'm not sure I can afford £1500

Regards

N
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E320 CDI Avantegarde, C320 CDI Avantgarde (AMG) Landcruiser 100 4.2 diesel series '01 Anniversary number 118,   Fiat 500 classic 1970, Fiat 500 classic 1971, Fiat 1.2 Pop 2012.
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nathanrobo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 15:17    Post subject: Engine stalling Reply with quote

Just taken the pump cover off to check plug connections and noticed that the Timing Control Valve is soaked with diesel, then after plugging everything back I the car wouldn't start.  I taken of the pipe between the filter and pump and fuel isn't flowing.  Could be that I have a loose connection on one of the plugs, made worse by being pulled around?  Any ideas?   Confused

Thanks

Nathan
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E320 CDI Avantegarde, C320 CDI Avantgarde (AMG) Landcruiser 100 4.2 diesel series '01 Anniversary number 118,   Fiat 500 classic 1970, Fiat 500 classic 1971, Fiat 1.2 Pop 2012.


Last edited by nathanrobo on Fri Nov 20, 2009 23:16; edited 1 time in total
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k1elliott
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 15:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think I remember someone on here mentioning the possibility of leaking fuel filters. Check around the bottom of the filter for leak.
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nathanrobo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 15:58    Post subject: Stalling engine Reply with quote

Checked for leaks, can't find anything.  I've primed the pump again (using the push button thing above the fuel filter), so now I have good supply between the filter and the fuel pump, but when I crack off one the the injectors or the injector pipes (back of the pump) and crank the engine over there is no sign of fuel.  Also taken off the return pipe and put it into a container, cranked the engine and there is clearly a good supply of fuel on the return too.  Just nothing to the injectors.

Unfortunately this still doesn't tell me if I have a problem with the loom or fuel pump.  I assume that I have now narrowed it down to these two?

regards

Nathan
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E320 CDI Avantegarde, C320 CDI Avantgarde (AMG) Landcruiser 100 4.2 diesel series '01 Anniversary number 118,   Fiat 500 classic 1970, Fiat 500 classic 1971, Fiat 1.2 Pop 2012.
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wildsmith
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 21:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure how much extra electricery there is on the 100 diesel compared to an 80 but you could check there's 12v at the fuel shut off solenoid or (assuming it's the same as the 80) remove the solenoid and take out the plunger, then refit but if the truck starts you'll have to pull the fuel pipe off to stop again it if it's an auto (stall it if it's a manual).
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Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP
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nathanrobo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 0:03    Post subject: Engine stalling Reply with quote

Thanks Jon

Any way to identify the fuel shut off solenoid... I'm a real diesel novice! Sounds very plausible though.

Regards

N
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E320 CDI Avantegarde, C320 CDI Avantgarde (AMG) Landcruiser 100 4.2 diesel series '01 Anniversary number 118,   Fiat 500 classic 1970, Fiat 500 classic 1971, Fiat 1.2 Pop 2012.
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wildsmith
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 0:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the FSM there's a lot more electricery  Crying or Very sad  I've assembled the fueling related bits of the engine FSM for you at www.mudtoys.com/manuals/100/08erm.pdf expand the bookmarks to see what's in there properly.
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Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP
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nathanrobo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jon

Is shut off solenoid also known as the spill control valve?  cheers Nathan
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E320 CDI Avantegarde, C320 CDI Avantgarde (AMG) Landcruiser 100 4.2 diesel series '01 Anniversary number 118,   Fiat 500 classic 1970, Fiat 500 classic 1971, Fiat 1.2 Pop 2012.
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wildsmith
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be, I don't know on those engines, sorry. There's a section in that FSM pdf that tells you how to check all the sensors / solenoids on the pump though and I'd check for power at the spill control valve when the ignition is on. It's a bit more complicated than the pump on the 80  Crying or Very sad
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Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP
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nathanrobo
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Joined: 20 Nov 2008
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Location: Northants - UK

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 14:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so far Jon!

Julian was kind enough to give me a call with some great advice and further diagnostics pdfs.  Strangely it did fire up briefly to day but didn't catch on - not sure what that means.  Plan so far is to try to figure out diag routines, strip out the spill control valve (see if it has anything that resembles a plunger), followed by a trip to Julian's friends in Swindon RVS.

I'll post a picture of the pump later.

Best regards

Nathan
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E320 CDI Avantegarde, C320 CDI Avantgarde (AMG) Landcruiser 100 4.2 diesel series '01 Anniversary number 118,   Fiat 500 classic 1970, Fiat 500 classic 1971, Fiat 1.2 Pop 2012.
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nathanrobo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon

Thanks for the manuals. Finally got some time to go through the FSM properly (house full of kids concentration begins after midnight).

The tests seem fairly straight forward with a multimeter.

Really appreciate the help!  Smile

N
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nathanrobo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engine stalling seems to be a fairly common problem among 1HD - FTE engines. If like me you're an enthusiast but not expert and you can still drive your truck I would seek out a real LC expert like Julian even if it means a bit of a journey (RAC/AA covered of course!)

However if the truck has come to a complete stop and is dead on the drive (like mine) or it shuts down so often it's painful, then here's what I've learnt so far with help from Jon and Julian (Thanks guys!).

Edit
Read fault symptom codes first!  This will save a lot of time.  If you get P1670 / 32 it's pump out.  Other codes refer to the FSM.

The 100 series with fly-by-wire pumps are complex, controlled by Toyo ECD (electronically controlled diesel) controlling fuel injection and injection timing electronically Sad  

Removing the pump requires radiator removal, power steering reservoir removal, water pump, timing belt cover, Cam cover, I.P. cover & injectors.  You'll need a good set of sockets (including 1/8" drive sockets & extension bars), a 32mm socket to turn the crank pulley, a bearing pulley to push the pump out and about three days of spare time (rushing the job could be costly - you need to pay attention to detail such as alignment marks and making additional matchmarks).

Not withstanding above, if you're going to press on... refer to further posts Cool
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E320 CDI Avantegarde, C320 CDI Avantgarde (AMG) Landcruiser 100 4.2 diesel series '01 Anniversary number 118,   Fiat 500 classic 1970, Fiat 500 classic 1971, Fiat 1.2 Pop 2012.


Last edited by nathanrobo on Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:55; edited 2 times in total
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nathanrobo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 22:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone know how to diagnose Key Transponder, Key Transponder ECU etc? The truck is pre-OBD so can't be diagnosed with DCL3 hand held tester...  Got a multimeter  Confused

Thanks

Nathan
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E320 CDI Avantegarde, C320 CDI Avantgarde (AMG) Landcruiser 100 4.2 diesel series '01 Anniversary number 118,   Fiat 500 classic 1970, Fiat 500 classic 1971, Fiat 1.2 Pop 2012.
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wildsmith
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 22:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't that covered somewhere in the main fsm I posted?

EDIT: BTW, I did an old fasioned diagnosis on my AHC the other day, just joined a couple of pins together on the connector by the break pedal and counted the light flashes. Maybe that would work the same way for the other systems so have a look in the AHC diagnostics section.
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Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP
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nathanrobo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 22:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon

I'll look through the AHC section.  I'm slowly making sense of the FSM -  (It seems a lot of the diags assume OBD & DCL3 hand held tool).

All the best
Nathan
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E320 CDI Avantegarde, C320 CDI Avantgarde (AMG) Landcruiser 100 4.2 diesel series '01 Anniversary number 118,   Fiat 500 classic 1970, Fiat 500 classic 1971, Fiat 1.2 Pop 2012.
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