The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club

[svickery]

I bought an Amazon (11 yrs old) in April (trading in my series 3 Landrover Discovery) in order to tow a very heavy horse trailer that the Discovery wasn't coping with. I love this vehicle and it has been brilliant - until this week. It appears to have very little grip on the snow and slides sideways at the slightest slope. Last winter I drove across snowy fields, and pulled neighbours cars up icey hills, with my Discovery, with no problems. This year I can barely get myself to the shops in the Amazon. Can anyone advise me ?

Tyres - it has standard Toyota Landcruiser road tyres, all in good condition, with a good amount of tread. I haven't let them down yet but have heard that might help ? I'm not convinced it will help enough to make a difference.

I selected Low ratio (but nothing came up on the dashboard to confirm that is what it was in - I wonder if it isn't working?)

I know very little about cars, but just know this one is not much better than my normal 2wd car, and not a patch on the Landrovers currently happily going up and down the lane. Is it because it is SO heavy ? do I need to buy snow chains ? or should it be performing better than this ?

Thank you very much for your help

Suzie

[Google]

[Cptsideways]

Exactly which standard tyres is it on?

If it's on Bridgestone Duellers that'll be why!!!! they are rubbish in the slippery stuff

[wobbly]

Tyres are indeed the main area to look at - the sipes on road tyres give very little grip in snow, the mooment they are compacted with snow then you are effectively on racing slicks!

The ideal would be a winter snow tyre - compound doesnt harden at low temp and has correct sipe pattern - in reality tho most folks cant afford to keep a set in the garage for use a few weeks a year, so a quality AT tyre should suffice for using on roads with surface snow. MT's can give better grip in deep snow.

The debate as to the best AT / MT winter tyre is a constant one, and generally can only be answered by looking at what folks say, applying it to your own circumstances, then buying the type you've decided on.....then see if they work or not!

Also, not convinced you should be using low-box. You need to avoid any wheel slip, so starting in high second may help?  My old XC90 winter setting selected 3rd!!

For what its worth, I watched a Disco 3 make a completely uncontrolled slide down a hill opposite our house - I went over in my LJ78 on road tyres and checked he was ok, then came back in to the warm. Actually, I could see he was ok, just wanted to make a point.....  

Pete

[Tractionman]

Got bridgestone duellers on my LJ78. came with new set 8 years ago and replaced with same ever since. i accept they are not the best tyres for extreme grip compared to coopers, generals and a few others but for general use i find more than capable. all this snow and ice, and in my construction work boggy building sites are just shrugged off if i use the 4wd and auto box to suit. also towing twin axle trailer with 2 tons + hardcore on and off muddy farm no problem.
probably never going to get me across a ploughed field or very steep slippery slope, but matching tyres to your own use is important, and of course budget.
Horses for courses, as they say.
                                                     regards, John

[Roger Fairclough]

Low range should not be necessary on a sealed road surface.

Your problem is all about suitable tyres and a lack of knowledge on how to best utilise the vehicle you have.

I have just come back from Northumberland where my Shogun coped easily with 9" snow and packed ice on narrow roads on standard original equipment road tyres.

I would suggest that a course on 4 wheel driving may help you to understand the techniques involved and a talk with your tutor will also help with a suitable choice of tyres.

Please don't take my suggestions as being overly critical of your driving prowess. We all have to start somewhere.

Roger

[svickery]

Thanks for the comments (well most of them !).

For starters the tyres don't match front and back - the front ones are Michelin Synchrone and the back ones are Nankang Utility. Means nothing to me - any comments ?

Now, Roger - I'll have you know I am (or rather was) a reasonably proficient off-road driver in my Discovery - never felt any need for a course, as it just managed everything thrown at it (within reason - it wasn't after all, a tractor, even though I treated it like that). At some stage some man has told me to put it in low ratio if its slipping, so that's what I did. Now I will opt for high ratio and see what happens. Yes I agree - I need to understand how to get the best out of the Amazon, and at the moment I really don't.

I loved my Disco until the day we got the Amazon - and both my husband and I realised that this is a far superior vehicle - fantastic towing vehicle, extremely comfortable. I very much doubt we'd ever have a Landrover again, but it did just cope with slippery surfaces very easily. This week has rather thrown me, as we've slid sideways towards gate posts and road edges in the Amazon.

The first time I got stuck I handed over to a 'qualified' off roader/ex police officer - and he couldn't get it out either (he put it in low ratio too). In the end I put a hay bale between it and the gate post it was sliding towards, and put two horse rugs under the tyres, and out it came.

The 2nd time it got stuck (same day) it was my husband driving (thankfully) - we got driven home in a Hilux - but the worst thing was that my friend's VW Toureg got out of that drive, when our car failed (and that car is seriously not an off-road vehicle, as we have had to tow it out of the woods on several occasions)

So 1) I will read the handbook and work out what the other buttons are for !
2) I will await your advice on best tyre type to suit all round use ie 90% on-road, often towing 2-3.5 tonne trailer, 10% off-road. But changing them is going to be expensive.
3) I'll investigate a course, but still not convinced it should be necessary - if I could do it in a Discovery I should also be able to do it in the Amazon - it's not exactly extreme off-roading - just driving on snow, or across fields.

Thank you for your patience and help

Suzie

[Roger Fairclough]

[aroscow]

For what it's worth tyres are pretty much everything.  Your cruiser is very very capable but only if she has the right footwear.

Last week I pulled an artic that had lost traction on a hill, and a bus with passengers. Funny how small the cruiser looks in those circumstances.

And I went playing in the deep stuff in derbyshire when the roads were shut.

Nothing special, nothing to bragg about and well within our capabilities.  I do have an 80, however I have no doubt a well shod 100 would have also been well within it's capabilities doing the same, and more comfy too.

If I may, get a decent matched set of at's. And a compressor so in the really bad stuff you can air them down and back up again when things get better.

You have an awesome truck. You just need to get the tyres right.

Ps also worth getting a good baseline service and inspection done.  If it had cheap tyres it may not have had the best tlc up to now. Just a thought.

Pps you are among friends here, we are all glad to offer assistance.
_________________
HDJ80, BFG AT's, grooved discs, OME 850/860's

[svickery]

Thanks guys - I will come back to you shortly with my tyre research - it just has on what it came with.... well actually not quite :

What it came with were enormous gangster blingy wheels, but after a few weeks of my neighbours taking the piss out of me I went back to the dealer and he swapped them for normal wheels !

I had no idea the tyres could make that much difference.

A farmer recommended Grabber tyres this morning - I'll find out about them too.

Thanks Roger for the explanation on the tyres and initials - very helpful

I definitely need tyres that will cope with hours of motorway driving as we do endurance riding and travel all over the place to events, then have to drive across muddy fields to park.

I tow the biggest horse trailer of them all (in the UK anyway) - the equitrek multi-trekka

It weighs 2 tonnes empty and 3.5 tonnes fully laden. The Discovery could tow it, but when we got on the motorway it made the car snake - absolutely horrible experience. A man with the same trailer told us to get the Amazon and it does a brilliant job, with a trailer that is really not very well designed and is too heavy on the nose.

Very relieved to hear that I will soon be able to tow my neighbours out of our lane again soon - was a bit embarassing being stuck in a car like this !

Just called AJS Tyres in Lower Kingswood who are 4x4 tyre specialists and they strongly recommend the General Grabber AT2 £119 + VAT fitted each. I currently have 275/70R16 and he would change them to 270/70R16 ie slightly narrower, as he says they are better with the heavier cars. What do you think ?

Suzie

[Roger Fairclough]

[regthing]

I can recommend GG AT2s as well. Got them on mine and no issues at all, quiet enough on the road and good in the snow. My house is on a steep hill and when it gets bad I'm the only one who can get up it. I even purposly park pointing up hill and drive up it as it's safer than risking sliding on the ice when I have to give way at the bottom.  
_________________
'98 Colorado KZJ95 1KZTE
General Grabber AT2s, Ironman Suspension and working my way round the worn bits!

[wobbly]

As well as the Grabber AT's , you could consider the BF Goodrich A/T KO tyre.

What these tyres have in common is that they are quality brands.

You are towing some serious metal - fully loaded your train weight must be around 5 tonne, when travelling at 60mph all this rests on 4 hand size pieces of rubber - frankly anything called Nankung shouldnt have a place in your life (unless its the horse!)

I also suspect - correct me if I'm wrong - that these werent new tyres when they were put on? Another black mark for the dealer who supplied them if so.

Regards

Pete

[wobbly]

Had a quick look on a tyre identifier website i've been using....the Nankang is listed as a Summer Tyre.

Pete

[Cptsideways]

Odd, worn & generally rubbish tyres are 99% of the problem. Unevely worn tyres do strange things to 4x4's with viscous diffs (which yours has) in icey conditions.

Get a set of new boots, essentially if towing get the correct original size tyres!!! DO NOT accept what the handy tyre dealer has in stock! There is a label on the fuel cap/door shut that tells what size tyres it should have & the load rating which is essential if towing. The tyres AT2 tyres suggested are a good bet too.


5 tons all up is nothing, my mate has a dual car trailer with 2 mx5's on & all the race gear 6.7 tons all in, with an early 80 series no bother at all.

[svickery]

I checked the handbook for tyre data and they are the right size - if nothing else ! They aren't worn either - in fact I remember being quite pleased with how new they were when he put them on. At least they were in pairs rather than all different.

Still, now I have a Landcruiser I probably won't ever need to go to a dealer again, as I'm fully expecting this car to last me a VERY long time.

I can't wait to get the new tyres on, but it looks like they'll have to be ordered in, so it may take a while.

I will let you know what they feel like when fitted.

This has been a very informative discussion - thank you all

Suzie