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Cam Chain Failure 2004 V6 4.0


 
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Parsonsdog
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Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Posts: 4
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 14:37    Post subject: Cam Chain Failure 2004 V6 4.0 Reply with quote

Hi.
Just had our 120 V6 4.0l petrol with 140k miles die on us at the weekend. RAC bloke noted Cam Chain was not spinng so had us towed home.

Is this fixable? I know i cannot get another petrol engine and finding mechanics in London that work on these is rare. My local garage reckons valves are probably also damaged if chain has siezed.

Would really like to repair this but would like anyones opinion as to if its worth it? Wish I had just kept my pre ious 90 version  witb its cam  belt  now, but this was recommended as being even more bullet proof!

Being in London  and it also having LPG fitted makes it an easy win to drive tbru tbe  city but i  simmply cannot find yanyhing  on  line in the UKon this. Its as if it never happens  other than now finding out that tbey go at about 100k miles+. Toyota garage at last  service spotted nothi g odd about it?
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Parsonsdog
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Joined: 19 Apr 2021
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Location: London

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:30    Post subject: 4litre V6 Cam Chain 4GR-FE failure Reply with quote

Hi again - just to follow up as no one seems to be able to comment on this at all.

Toyota Battersea - correctly diagnose Cam Chain Failure.

Then report that engine is not really supported anymore or many of the parts and start quoting big numbers £ to investigate further.

Result - taking it to Naismiths Engineering to get their opinion as I am not confident Toyota have any experience on these engines  - Naismiths are also worried/concerned about getting valves (if needed) as again - engine is not really supported here in the Uk so delay in parts from overseas is likely.

Apart from going Australia or US what is anyones opinion - anyone with any experience or recommendations on sources for parts in the UK or engineering know how?

The failure occurred after we arrived in Dorking when returning to the parked (cold) car and it not starting up. So the failure occurred after parking and not while running (no noises to give any warning of anything mechanical or engine warning light) when we parked up.

Regards
John
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Juddian
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Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Posts: 374
Location: Homeboy

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very few of these engines in the UK, and even fewer Toyota engines develop serious issues unless neglected, so hardly suprising no one's answered.

Talking generally from what i can gather its definately an interference design, unlike the bomb proof 3.4, so if the timing chain has slipped or broken completely it's going to mean some bent valves, but more seriously possible piston crown damage.
Only you know how well or not that vehicle has been cared for, if oil changes and levels have been neglected in the past, which could well be the main reason the chain has failed then it might not be worth spending the considerable time and cost of fully stripping this engine only to find it's beyond economic repair and your hard earned might be put to better use trying to find a good used engine.

Won't be many or even any used engines available in this country, unless you can find an accident damaged write off, so you're probably going to have to find someone who specialises in importing Japanese large parts.

Course if the engineer you're going to try can fix it all well and good, not surprised the Toyota dealer, particularly a city dealer, doesn't want to know.

Northampton Toyota dealer changed the cambelt competently on my previous 3.4V6 so they arn't afraid of complicated jobs, and they do have Simon Holton in the parts dept who's got a good reputation, so if your engineer is struggling to find parts a phone call to Simon might be worth making.

This sadly is going to be an expensive rebuild whatever happens, just bad luck.
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Parsonsdog
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Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Posts: 4
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 9:08    Post subject: 1GR-FE - question - is this a Non-Interference design engine Reply with quote

Hi everyone and thank you Juddian for comment - I will keep folks posted as oil change was like clockwork each year plus filters etc so I still feel strongly that if this is just bad luck then Toy Car should double check.

Car is in for the strip down now but I just wanted to ask if anyone can confirm if this 1GR-FE engine (4l Chain Cam) is non-interference design like the prior 5VFZE (3.4L belt Can)?

This would make a big difference to Cam Shaft crashing onto the Cylinders syndrome we all talk about. i.e. it should not happen with noon-interferance designs, especially if the cam chain snap/fail occurred after driving, parking and leaving it the day this all started (fingers crossed moment here!)

Any one know exactly what the design is?

Regards
John
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Juddian
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Joined: 31 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 18:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

From everything i've read the 4 litre is sadly an interference design.
I was amazed the 3.4 was non interference, rare indeed.

Keep us posted how this works out for you please.
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Parsonsdog
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Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Posts: 4
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 15:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Everyone.

Got the 120 2004 cruiser back from Naismiths and bill was £4k.

Ignoring the normal works (oil, filters, sparks etc) to put it back together the following were replaced:

1. Cam Chain and Guides (all needing to be ordered from the US)
2. Oil Pump casing (US as well) as was hit by the chain when it snapped - came as kit so now have the old Oil Pump Gears as spares
3. Head Gaskets - both sides (most likely from a prior thermostat failure they think on the cooling system - this was replaced months earlier)
4. One valve - apparent carbon hit and damaged - all others fine - all now lapped
5. Head machined/skimmed to seal
6. 2off timing solenoids were out of spec and had to be replaced.
7. Sump & vent removed and cleaned - large heavy sludge deposit in the base - - team were quite shocked at this.
8. Had the front coolant/starter belt replaced while they were in doing the cams etc.

Other than the above they noted engine itself was perfect on all exposed internal areas when opened and I was really fortunate the failure occurred when static as cylinders were all fine.

I asked on cause - they cited the sludge as excessive but all parts appeared well oiled/greased internally so no real obvious point of failure. No heat or other markers. Cylinders and valves all looked in very good order apart from the one damaged by carbon movement/build up. Replacing the ignition solenoids would account for the erratic running.

They also think a twice yearly oil change could be a good idea (depending on mileage as 2020 was not good barometer) just to keep the good work done working as intended now!

So - in all a successful fix. Costly and probably she is now good to go for another 150k miles...

I cannot praise these guys enough as they tackled it very competently and were able to get parts where Toyota GB simply gave up. I think if anyone out there wants something done on their petrol Prado then these guys now have the hands on experience plus the equipment/contacts to help.

Fingers crossed the other engine ancillaries all keep going now for another 100k and I can deal with the normal stuff like brakes and suspension Smile Very Happy

One thing I want to really check on now is the best oil option here as this must have been a contributory issue. The sludge build up is worrying and I wonder if this plus the prior thermostat failure led to the fail. Any suggestions/examples seen on this front perhaps?

I would also recommend anyone out there with a 120 Petrol now at or above 140k miles to get that chain replaced now and perhaps check the sump to be on the safe side.

Regards
John
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Juddian
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Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Posts: 374
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 20:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lot of work there and parts too, the bill was quite reasonable i think all counted, i was expecting far worse in terms of damage.

Sludge? the main thing that caused that in my humble is neglected oil servicing leading to a timing chain starved of essential oil feed, problem exacerbated by possible overheating which cooked the oil anyway.

Agree with twice a year oil changes, and unless the mileage covered is very low (not short hops, that's hard use too) all cars would benefit from this, DIY with bulk bought oils and filters its cheap as chips and best thing you can do for your engine.

Thanks for coming back with the outcome.
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karl2000
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Joined: 25 Apr 2021
Posts: 318
Location: North West

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 0:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see a very comprehensive update - glad you got it sorted and kept it on the road!
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