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Desperatezulu Lifetime member
Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 483 Location: Surrey
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 15:38 Post subject: Front axle & hub rebuild- experience that may be helpful |
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I did a front axle/hub refurbish on my LC last weekend and thought I'd report on my experience as far as it might be helpful for any other first timers attempting this on their 80s. For info, my LC has 100,500 miles on the clock and I had no clue what prior maintenance or repairs might have been done to the front axle. The CVs were chattering badly whenever I ran it in low range, so I decided to do the rebuild!
I did a fair amount of homework beforehand. Some of the sites I found useful were:
For an excellent write-up with lots of detail and pics, see the IH8MUD FAQ (lots of other good posts on this topic there too)
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/78276-front-axle-rebuild-faq.html
SUVSteve on our own forum has a great write-up too:
http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5905
For a list of parts, part numbers and tools, see:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/1982-front-axle-rebuild-oem-p-ns-here.html
For setting wheel-bearing pre-load, follow Julian's excellent guide here( a few posts down):
http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5046
I used the FSM for torque settings and for some guidance on how the bits fit together. The Ellery guide doesn't give much (helpful) detail and I found it pretty useless compared to the FSM plus print-outs of the above guides off the 'net.
For the record, I bought the Milners "swivel housing & hub seal kit", mainly for the gaskets and wiper seal kit.
http://www.milneroffroad.com/categories.asp?cID=9096&p=3
I opted to use the Milner hub seal rather than buying from Toyota (part #: 90311-62001) as I anticipate changing the brake rotors in the not too distant future, so I'll probably be opening the hub then and will get a chance to inspect the seal and replace with genuine Toy if needed.
UPDATE: The Milner Inner Hub seals caused me a lot of hassles. They are hard rubber compared to the Toy OEM metal body with soft rubber for sealing on the spindle. As a result, getting the Milner seals fitted onto the spindle when mounting the hub is a pain. I ended up popping out the little retaining spring in the seal, which ruined the spring... so that was the end of that seal! My advice - spend the extra money and buy the OEM part!!
I bought Toyota parts for:
- Inner Axle seal (part #: 90310-35010) - £12.65 ea.
- Tabbed lock washer (90215-42025) - £1.99 ea
- Circlip for inner axle/CV (90521-34005) - £1.95 ea
- Snapring for CV/axle hub (90520-31001) - £2.30 ea
I bought new Koyo trunnion/swivel bearings and inner & outer wheel bearings from Julian Voelcker. PM/email Julian for availability and prices - all I can say is that these bearings are VERY expensive from Toyota.
I decided that I would replace both wheel bearings even though their service life is supposed to be up to 300,000 miles. My thinking is that I will keep the old ones as spares. When I removed them, I found a nasty "flake" missing on the outer bearing race, so I was doubly glad to be replacing!
I bought replacement CV joints from Iezura for £50.99 ea incl delivery (make sure you order the ones with the ABS ring, if you have ABS!). I chose to go with Iezura over Milner because the Iezura had positive feedback from a number of members here, while the Milners feedback was more mixed. Both of these are MUCH cheaper than replacement OEM from Toyota (I was quoted £500+ per unit! ). I wanted the "harder" CV as most of my use is on-road, so I didn't need the tougher, softer Longfields, which apparently wear out sooner (and cost a bit too).
http://cgi.e bay.co.uk/TOYOTA-LANDCRUISER-4-2-4-5-HDJ80-HDJ100-FZJ80-CV-JOINT_W0QQitemZ260468028291QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3ca51ab383&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
So, the good part, what did I learn?
1. Clean the back of the hub with degreaser beforehand and clean as much off with a pressure washer/wire brush before you start. Otherwise, expect to be covered in grease & muck.
2. You need plenty of paper towel (preferably industrial!) We went through 2 rolls and that was using as little as possible. This is a messy job and rags quickly get saturated with grease and become useless. Get 4 rolls of kitchen towel to be safe.
3. The steering knuckle/trunnion bearing races were very tough to get out. Do yourself a favour a get a LONG punch or brass drift. I had a puny brass drift which didn't allow much force (hammering!) to be applied and pieces of brass flaked off anyway. A long screwdriver was used and 45mins per race later, they were out. Not fun....
4. This is a messy job - get yourself a big box of nitrile gloves so that you can "clean" your hands occasionally by simply swapping for a new pair. Otherwise the grease gets everywhere, on every tool and is a PITA. A pair of overalls/boilersuit would be a good idea too.
5. I battled to get the inner axle oil seal out - buy yourself a seal puller/hook. Wasting half an hour trying to collapse it with a screwdriver and potentially damaging the surface on the axle housing is not smart. I bought a puller and doing the other side of the axle was a breeze!
5. This is a pretty standard problem but what spare/replacement parts to stock, other than the parts that you're replacing? We snapped a wiper seal bolt (puny pathetic little bolts) and didn't have a spare. Also a spindle/hub bolt was threaded - I suspect it was already like that from a previous job - and I had no spare. I'd suggest buying 1 or 2 spare bolts for all the bolts - if you thread a brake calliper bolt and have no spare, your LC aint going anywhere! Also have a couple of spare studs for the steering arm, if you're not planning to replace them anyway. The convenience of having a spare to hand when the unexpected happens is massive!
6. On MUD there were suggestions that the cone washers on the hub should be replaced. I saw no need for this and at £2.60 each x 6 per side, it seemed like an unnecessary expense. Obviously if they're damaged then replace - mine came out fine with some judicious tapping on the hub cover.
7. SUVSteve is a legend for being able to take pics throughout the tear-down and rebuild, despite the grease and muck. I would have added the cost of a new camera to my expenses for the rebuild!
8. The Milner seals are rubbish - the gaskets fit ok but the dust seal didn't match the hole pattern for the spindle too well and chewed up the thread on one bolt. The Milner wiper seals seem to fit ok, so will see how they last, otherwise the only things worth using are the gaskets IMHO. Contact Ian Rubie (Idrubie on the forum) or Julian Voelcker (Jvoelcker on the forum) for Toyota OEM parts at better prices than your main dealer! Going OEM is definitely the way to go if you want to end up with as perfect a job as you can!
What did I do right?
1. Snap-ring pliers were great - removing and fitting snaprings was a 10 second job! For a few quid, you will save a lot of time - buy some!
2. The hose-clamp trick to fit the CV snap-ring worked well. Buy a 25-35mm hose clip - I bought a bigger one and it was a bit unwieldy.
3. Half-marks here - I used a bit of PVC pipe to separate the half-shaft and CV. It was a bit too whippy, a metal pipe would be much better. Remember the half-shaft and CV are greasy as hell, so trying to separate by smacking it with a hammer is not very effective.
4. I bought a 54mm socket off e bay for about £10 - shopping around the SST was about £20-25 delivered and most 54mm sockets were around £30!!! I was happy to find the one that I did and it worked perfectly. The other big bonus of having a socket rather than the box spanner or SST is that you can use a torque wrench and get the pre-load right, rather than guessing.
http://cgi.e bay.co.uk/STANLEY-TOOLS-54mm-12-Point-Socket-3-4-Drive-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ130322276119QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Hand_Tools_Equipment?hash=item1e57d01f17&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
5. Amazingly, the installation of the wheel bearings and setting the pre-load went perfectly. I redid the "nut tightening and turning the hub step" a few times just to make sure that I hadn't done something wrong. I followed Julian's instructions to the T and it went so smoothly that I feel I MUST have missed something!
What did I find when stripping the hub and axle down?
1. The hub had definitely been opened before as the hub nuts had been loosened/tightened by tapping a screw-driver against the corners....
2. The lower trunnion bearing (the one the steering arm connects to) was kaput. When I removed it a roller fell out, the cage was extremely loose with some cracked "bars", some rollers were worn away or broken - basically just a mess! Scary to wonder how long it would have been until complete failure and the steering bound up? The top bearing was ok, although there were some signs of false brinelling on the race, so the bearing was definitely due for replacement.
3. The CV was very worn and the balls and cage were very sloppy and loose. The CV has big grooves worn into it and the cage shows a lot of wear too.
4. The inner axle oil seal was intact and there was no sign of mixing of diff-oil and hub grease. Given that my CV's were clicking really badly, I was sure that the grease wouild be diluted and was surprised to find that it was not the case. I was in 2 minds whether to replace the axle oil seal or not but decided to in the end. I wonder whether the previous owner had replaced the oil seal and regreased the hub and left the old bearings and CV in there?
5. Brake disc, pads and calliper all looked ok, although they had collected lots of mud.
6. The inner wheel bearing was in perfect shape
7. The outer wheel bearing race had a flake missing on its bearing surface - not good! The missing section had caked grease in it, so the damage/flaw appeared to be quite old - I wonder what caused it or if it was a manufacturing defect? Both wheel bearings were Timkens and I replaced with Koyo. Does anyone know what wheelbearings were originally fitted in the 80? I assume a Japanese brand (Koyo) would be used so the Timken's are probably replacements themselves?
I'll probably start another thread with pics of the knackered bearings for some expert reviews and opinions as to what may have caused this! If anyone wants a particular pic of one of the parts, let me know and I'll see if I can take one.
I'll probably add to/edit this post as I remember more things. It's long enough for now!
Cheers, _________________ Andrew
'98 LC80 4.2TD VX 24v
Last edited by Desperatezulu on Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:44; edited 1 time in total |
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Bat21 ***
Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 246 Location: Shropshire
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 20:41 Post subject: |
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Excellent post Andrew! |
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jvoelcker *******
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 1039 Location: Nr Ledbury, Herefordshire. UK
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:48 Post subject: |
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Hi Andrew,
Great write up. A few extra points to add....
1. I find the factory original bearings tend to last 100-150,000 miles if well serviced, although often they aren't.
2. Depending on the age/target market Toyota will either use Koyo or Timken bearings - I haven't noticed any particular rules on this.
3. Often I have come across trucks where people will have tried using cold chisels to remove the cone washers - if they are badly torn up this is when you should consider replacing them.
4. As with getting stock of spare bolts, always be prepared to replace the steering knuckle bearings - you may not notice too many problems, however once you break it down you will be surprised at how worn they can be and also how much of a difference new ones can make when fitted.
5. The small bolts holding the wiper seals are prone to rusting just below the head and washers - save yourself some heartache and check them before re-using. If suspect they can be swapped for some standard M6 bolts and washer and spring washer.
6. Whether the inner axle seal is giving problems or not, always check the breather on the axle and make sure the union where the breather connects to the axle is drilled out to about 5-6mm - this should help avoid problems in the future. _________________ Cheers,
Julian
1994 HDJ80, with loads of mods without looking too obscene
1997 KZJ95 - Gilly's - plain black and muddy on BFG ATs. |
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Darkeyes ***
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 217 Location: Norfolk Coast
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 16:55 Post subject: |
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Fantastic post. A job I have been putting off for a bit now. You give me hope - I think??! lol |
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suvsteve Lifetime member
Joined: 01 Feb 2008 Posts: 506 Location: bury st edmunds suffolk
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Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 15:08 Post subject: |
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this pdf file may well help too - cheers to gav for changeing the format fo me
https://acrobat.com/#d=hgxk2t99qYtPxJI949GwjA _________________ regards steve
you have only one life, enjoy. |
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x_shaun ***
Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 136 Location: BRISTOL
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Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 23:35 Post subject: |
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the back side of my knuckles are rusty what should i do clean and paint them or just try to clean them up. how bad can they be cheers |
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Desperatezulu Lifetime member
Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 483 Location: Surrey
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:25 Post subject: |
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Shaun,
You could just give them a rub down with a very fine sandpaper - I guess you could paint them with a anti-rust primer or "Kurust" if you wanted. The surfaces need to be nice and smooth so that the wiper seals can form a good seal on them (to keep the grease in the knuckle!) - if you paint them with a waxoyl or matte coat of some sort, the rubber wiper seals will wear quickly and soon they won't seal too well. If your seals are working properly, the outside surface of the knuckles should be coated in a thin layer of grease, which will keep them rust-free hopefully! Before reassempling, I coated mine with grease just to make sure that there was some grease on the surface for the wipers to seal with.
Cheers, _________________ Andrew
'98 LC80 4.2TD VX 24v |
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x_shaun ***
Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 136 Location: BRISTOL
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 21:51 Post subject: |
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thanks will have to give mine a going over when it warms up cheers |
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watkinsontj **
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 74 Location: Chessington, Surrey
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 13:52 Post subject: |
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Can the hub swivel bearing be changed by removing the hub as a complete assembly instead of stripping every thing off? I realise that the caliper would need to be removed. But just wondered if the half shaft can be refitted if still attached to the hub.
Has anyone tried this?
Regards
Tim. _________________ Landcruiser 4.2VX 1993 |
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suvsteve Lifetime member
Joined: 01 Feb 2008 Posts: 506 Location: bury st edmunds suffolk
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 17:55 Post subject: |
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i think unfortunatly thats a no as the cv its self would be in the way _________________ regards steve
you have only one life, enjoy. |
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watkinsontj **
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 74 Location: Chessington, Surrey
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 13:40 Post subject: |
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Thanks Steve,
It was a bit of a long shot but I thought it was worth asking.
Regards
Tim. _________________ Landcruiser 4.2VX 1993 |
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Weave **
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Posts: 114 Location: Isle of Wight
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 21:17 Post subject: |
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Can anyone tell me what CWP i have in my UK 1993 80? It has front and rear lockers and is automatic.
Thanks. |
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Joseph Peace *
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Posts: 17 Location: Somerset
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 15:41 Post subject: |
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I had a pulsing and shaking when braking. It was getting worse so thought I'd better replace the brake discs. Taking them off I have discovered that one caliper is seized on one side and has worn the disc thin on one side. Good, found the problem, can fix that.
But. When I opened the hub up there is swivel housing grease in the hub. It is the same on both sides. That is definitely not supposed to be there! I thought it must be a duff seal but I can't find a seal. I can see where one might fit. So my question is; Is there a seal inside the spindle ? Is is simply an O ring the right size or is it something more sophisticated? And does anyone have any idea of a part number or anything? |
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Darkeyes ***
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 217 Location: Norfolk Coast
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 16:58 Post subject: |
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Hi Joseph Peace,
The parts and part nos. are:-
90311-62001 x2 Grease seals for wheel
90310-35010 x2 Inner axle oil seals
Inner axle oil seals stops your diff oil from slopping around in your steering knuckle. Grease Seals are for wheel bearings.
Have a look at the photos in SUV Steves excellent write up for a good idea of where everything goes. |
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Joseph Peace *
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Posts: 17 Location: Somerset
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 19:55 Post subject: |
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Thanks Darkeyes. But I don't think that has answered my question. The inner axle seal that keeps the diff oil where it is supposed to be isn't the one I'm talking about and the grease seal isn't either. I've got swivel housing grease in my wheel bearings and I can't see what is supposed to keep this from happening. I suspect a completely missing oil seal from the inside of the spindle. I have a Haynes manual but can't find any reference to it in there. |
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